Never regret, Never apologise.

[SpheresOfBalance]

To hurt people and stand tall despite it is selfish, cowardly, thus ignorant of ones own psyche, a babe in the woods. Most only expect such from those that are either immature, damaged, or quite insane. For anyone to treat another as they would rather not be treated, forgets their childhood, and can't imagine their deathbed, running scared they are, often frightened of their own shadow, hence their deceit.

I'm always sorry when in my ignorance I hurt someone, and sometimes this happens when I try and match their strength so as to be an equal and opposite force to theirs, when I believe it's required for everyones edification. We're in this thing together whether we like it or not, and when we hurt another we're actually hurting ourselves. So as soon as I realize that I've hit a nerve a bit too hard, I apologize because I understand it, because I've been there. It's then that it's a must that I reaffirm our ultimate oneness.

Here at the PNF I really only care about the topics, that they are brought to light as truthfully as possible. I despise liars, and pity cowards, usually one in the same type person. When one can't equally admit his weakness's along with his strengths, he usually can't see himself clearly, afraid of his own shadow. As Harry said, "a Man's got to know his limitations."

To neither regret nor apologize is an unneeded, actually self defeating, technique, used as a supposed self defense mechanism, yet it only continues to stymy ones growth, perpetuating ones problems. I do indeed feel sorry for those caught in that trap, as they never achieve any amount of real wisdom.

[artisticsolution]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/style ... pe=article

Here ya go!

[Hobbes' Choice]

When I apologize, and I do, I wait so I can reflect and mean it with sincerity. I know I can do and say stupid things, and try to do the right thing by people.

Anyone who can't do that is insecure and weak, and just maybe a bit of a jerk.

On the contrary. Weakness is in also apologising for who you are. Why did you say those things in the first place? What it you or someone else? Why not take responsibility for your actions, like an adult, rather than always excusing your unacceptable behaviour and trying to get away with it but thinking that an apology excuses you. It does not. You said those things, take responsibility for them. And fucking grow up.

The history of this thread is that I was once a teacher. When kids did wrong they were often asked to to apologise. I used to get fed up, as we used to see the same faces doing wrong, again and again, thinking that apologising was like getting new license to repeat the "crime".

So much for the confessional!

Whilst most teachers would accept the apology, only to see the same kids transgress the rules again. I would tell the kids that apologies were empty and I did not want an apology. I wanted an explanation and a effort to not make the same mistake again.I told them I was not going to forgive and forget; I was expecting to see a change.
In the long run I got better results with my pupils.

[SpheresOfBalance]

When I apologize, and I do, I wait so I can reflect and mean it with sincerity. I know I can do and say stupid things, and try to do the right thing by people.

Anyone who can't do that is insecure and weak, and just maybe a bit of a jerk.

On the contrary. Weakness is in also apologising for who you are.
You couldn't be more wrong, because you're not just "WHO YOU ARE" automatically as if someone waved a magic wand, poof, there "you are!" It's a life long learning experience, that begins on day one. Sure as a child many get stepped on, placing them far behind the "normal" learning curve, but who you are now is temporal, surely not what you were on day one, and not what you'll become by D-day. What's the difference between all those yous? Learning my friend, learning, that is if you keep that open minded door open, and that definitely means questioning/doubting yourself. Actually everything! And to exclude yourself from that everything is well... quite insane!


Why did you say those things in the first place?
You were an emotional wreck, had a bad day, was distracted, etc.

What it you or someone else?
Did you mean, "Was it you..."? Does it matter? we all err and we are all brilliant, depending on the day and the circumstance!

Why not take responsibility for your actions, like an adult, rather than always excusing your unacceptable behaviour and trying to get away with it but thinking that an apology excuses you.
You have it all backwards, probably your, so called, defense mechanism kicking in. You are never excused for your unacceptable behavior, it's not about that. It's about finally giving to those that you took from in the first place. And if sincere, it's about your change that necessarily follows; your learning, and ultimately your wisdom.


It does not.
Of course not!

You said those things, take responsibility for them.
And the only way to take responsibility for those unacceptable things is to acknowledge them as such, for your edification as well as your victims, and all those that witnessed it. Anything less is indeed cowardly.

And fucking grow up.
Exactly my point, grow up!

The history of this thread is that I was once a teacher.
Then I feel sorry for your students.

When kids did wrong they were often asked to to apologise.
Good, and rightfully so!

I used to get fed up, as we used to see the same faces doing wrong, again and again, thinking that apologising was like getting new license to repeat the "crime".
That's when a good 'teacher' would have set them straight.


So much for the confessional!
Yeah, it was honest, but not very enlightened. So you get partial credit. You get a C.

Whilst most teachers would accept the apology, only to see the same kids transgress the rules again.
Then they should have set the kids straight!

I would tell the kids that apologies were empty and I did not want an apology.
And in that moment you let those students down, you should have made it clear to them, what it was really all about.

I wanted an explanation and a effort to not make the same mistake again.
Finally something good from the 'teacher.'

I told them I was not going to forgive and forget;
Again partial credit, to forgive yes, but to forget never, until they'd shown they'd learned.

I was expecting to see a change.
And good on you for that! Full credit, you get an A.

In the long run I got better results with my pupils.
Yes but it wasn't because you dropped the need for apology that you got it, rather it's because you stood your ground on their learning, and would not budge. Good on you for that much at least!

[artisticsolution]

When I apologize, and I do, I wait so I can reflect and mean it with sincerity. I know I can do and say stupid things, and try to do the right thing by people.

Anyone who can't do that is insecure and weak, and just maybe a bit of a jerk.

On the contrary. Weakness is in also apologising for who you are. Why did you say those things in the first place? What it you or someone else? Why not take responsibility for your actions, like an adult, rather than always excusing your unacceptable behaviour and trying to get away with it but thinking that an apology excuses you. It does not. You said those things, take responsibility for them. And fucking grow up.

The history of this thread is that I was once a teacher. When kids did wrong they were often asked to to apologise. I used to get fed up, as we used to see the same faces doing wrong, again and again, thinking that apologising was like getting new license to repeat the "crime".

So much for the confessional!

Whilst most teachers would accept the apology, only to see the same kids transgress the rules again. I would tell the kids that apologies were empty and I did not want an apology. I wanted an explanation and a effort to not make the same mistake again.I told them I was not going to forgive and forget; I was expecting to see a change.
In the long run I got better results with my pupils.

Okay, I get where you're coming from Hobbes. It makes sense now. I have to tell you what it's like to be on the receiving end of that though... I was in first grade and the teacher put on a movie. She sat me by the projector and during the movie I leaned back to relax and my foot went up on the projector stand and made the movie jump on the screen. She came over to me and told me nicely not to do it again. I said, "okay" not realizing I had done it. In my mind I made a mental note not to do it again because it bothered people. So she started the movie up again and I relax and my foot goes up on the damn thing again! This time she came over a little angry and said, "If you do it again I will have to move you." In my mind I was thinking, "well then move ...obviously I have no control over it!" I made sure this time I wouldn't relax. So of course as time went on and the movie got boring, up goes my fucking foot! When she came and moved me she was pissed off. I was 6...there was no way for me to explain I wanted her to move me...I didn't have the words back then. So all I could say was sorry...but it didn't help. I was branded a trouble maker. And I really was the most compassionate kid back then. I didn't want to be a bother. I just couldn't help that I couldn't remember shit.

Apology or no apology, I would have had the same behavior over and over, and I would hate it over and over. Not to mention, there was a side of me who thought anyone who didn't get that I didn't mean to do wrong was a fucking idiot. (Yes, I thought "fucking idiot" when I was 6). lol

[Wyman]

When I apologize, and I do, I wait so I can reflect and mean it with sincerity. I know I can do and say stupid things, and try to do the right thing by people.

Anyone who can't do that is insecure and weak, and just maybe a bit of a jerk.

On the contrary. Weakness is in also apologising for who you are. Why did you say those things in the first place? What it you or someone else? Why not take responsibility for your actions, like an adult, rather than always excusing your unacceptable behaviour and trying to get away with it but thinking that an apology excuses you. It does not. You said those things, take responsibility for them. And fucking grow up.

The history of this thread is that I was once a teacher. When kids did wrong they were often asked to to apologise. I used to get fed up, as we used to see the same faces doing wrong, again and again, thinking that apologising was like getting new license to repeat the "crime".

So much for the confessional!

Whilst most teachers would accept the apology, only to see the same kids transgress the rules again. I would tell the kids that apologies were empty and I did not want an apology. I wanted an explanation and a effort to not make the same mistake again.I told them I was not going to forgive and forget; I was expecting to see a change.
In the long run I got better results with my pupils.

This is a wonderful example of discovering a truth in a narrow context and then generalizing to cover other contexts in which it has no business. It's a mistake that covers a lot of ground in philosophy, especially ethics.

[Hobbes' Choice]

When I apologize, and I do, I wait so I can reflect and mean it with sincerity. I know I can do and say stupid things, and try to do the right thing by people.

Anyone who can't do that is insecure and weak, and just maybe a bit of a jerk.

On the contrary. Weakness is in also apologising for who you are. Why did you say those things in the first place? What it you or someone else? Why not take responsibility for your actions, like an adult, rather than always excusing your unacceptable behaviour and trying to get away with it but thinking that an apology excuses you. It does not. You said those things, take responsibility for them. And fucking grow up.

The history of this thread is that I was once a teacher. When kids did wrong they were often asked to to apologise. I used to get fed up, as we used to see the same faces doing wrong, again and again, thinking that apologising was like getting new license to repeat the "crime".

So much for the confessional!

Whilst most teachers would accept the apology, only to see the same kids transgress the rules again. I would tell the kids that apologies were empty and I did not want an apology. I wanted an explanation and a effort to not make the same mistake again.I told them I was not going to forgive and forget; I was expecting to see a change.
In the long run I got better results with my pupils.

This is a wonderful example of discovering a truth in a narrow context and then generalizing to cover other contexts in which it has no business. It's a mistake that covers a lot of ground in philosophy, especially ethics.

I disagree. I think our culture is obsessed with apologising, and regretting - or for remonstrating with those that refuse to apologise. And we'd do much better as a culture were we to grow up.
If you think there is a valid context for apology and regret let me know other wise I'll assume that you are just making hot air.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Okay, I get where you're coming from Hobbes. It makes sense now. I have to tell you what it's like to be on the receiving end of that though... I was in first grade and the teacher put on a movie. She sat me by the projector and during the movie I leaned back to relax and my foot went up on the projector stand and made the movie jump on the screen. She came over to me and told me nicely not to do it again. I said, "okay" not realizing I had done it. In my mind I made a mental note not to do it again because it bothered people. So she started the movie up again and I relax and my foot goes up on the damn thing again! This time she came over a little angry and said, "If you do it again I will have to move you." In my mind I was thinking, "well then move ...obviously I have no control over it!" I made sure this time I wouldn't relax. So of course as time went on and the movie got boring, up goes my fucking foot! When she came and moved me she was pissed off. I was 6...there was no way for me to explain I wanted her to move me...I didn't have the words back then. So all I could say was sorry...but it didn't help. I was branded a trouble maker. And I really was the most compassionate kid back then. I didn't want to be a bother. I just couldn't help that I couldn't remember shit.

Apology or no apology, I would have had the same behavior over and over, and I would hate it over and over. Not to mention, there was a side of me who thought anyone who didn't get that I didn't mean to do wrong was a fucking idiot. (Yes, I thought "fucking idiot" when I was 6). lol

Thanks for sharing. My advise to the teacher - put the projector where a child can't kick it. Six is too young to expect ultimate leg control.

[Philosophy Explorer]

To add my POV, I think apologies such as "I'm sorry" is often looked upon as being a cliche and has lost its force from sounding insincere.

PhilX

[Hobbes' Choice]

To add my POV, I think apologies such as "I'm sorry" is often looked upon as being a cliche and has lost its force from sounding insincere.

PhilX

I agree - just an empty gesture.

Real contrition can only be achieved with action, not just words. When I accepted an apology from a pupil, I always used to ask them if they thought an apology forgives them. I would remind them that other teachers accept apologies but that I wanted to see a change in behaviour, if only to mean that they would try to be more aware of their actions and think about consequences more.

There has also been a trend to world leaders to apologise for actions taken by their ancestors in title. Such as saying sorry for slavery.
Just a waste of oxygen. Rather take pride in the legislation that first banned the world trade in 1812, and then against ownership in all areas of the empire in 1832.
Such explicit pride ought to make us also continue to take action against slavery wherever we see it.

[artisticsolution]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f23jA2tmeWM

Trump agrees with you Hobbes! He is sticking to his guns and has no regrets or apologies!

(at around the 2 min mark is when the fun begins )

[Hobbes' Choice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f23jA2tmeWM

Trump agrees with you Hobbes! He is sticking to his guns and has no regrets or apologies!

(at around the 2 min mark is when the fun begins )

There is a big difference between me and Trump; namely he is a fucking p****.
Life is too short to watch the link, so you'll forgive me for not bothering.

[artisticsolution]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f23jA2tmeWM

Trump agrees with you Hobbes! He is sticking to his guns and has no regrets or apologies!

(at around the 2 min mark is when the fun begins )

There is a big difference between me and Trump; namely he is a fucking p****.
Life is too short to watch the link, so you'll forgive me for not bothering.

Trump has been in trouble here for saying that the illegal mexicans here are rapists and murderers and some might be good. He was asked if he regretted saying that and if he would apologize. He said no. He said he has no regrets. He doesn't feel an apology is in order.

I am just saying that, in having no regrets and no apologies, you two are alike.

[Hobbes' Choice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f23jA2tmeWM

Trump agrees with you Hobbes! He is sticking to his guns and has no regrets or apologies!

(at around the 2 min mark is when the fun begins )

There is a big difference between me and Trump; namely he is a fucking p****.
Life is too short to watch the link, so you'll forgive me for not bothering.

Trump has been in trouble here for saying that the illegal mexicans here are rapists and murderers and some might be good. He was asked if he regretted saying that and if he would apologize. He said no. He said he has no regrets. He doesn't feel an apology is in order.

I am just saying that, in having no regrets and no apologies, you two are alike.

He's a p****, and pricks make prickish statements. He has no need to apologise for something he said and meant it.

[artisticsolution]

He's a p****, and pricks make prickish statements. He has no need to apologise for something he said and meant it.

Maybe, or maybe he knows what he said is embarrassingly stupid but he thinks that by apologising he is showing weakness. At least that is what I lean toward...some guys think an apology means they are weak...as if people won't know they they said something insulting/stupid and if they stick to their guns...maybe people will follow their fuckupedness and then they can be the founder of a new brand...as if, when you have the masses behind you, then you are no longer wrong.

That is my take on why Trump won't apologize. I think he is smart enough to know why what he said is wrong, now that he has had so many explanations and much backlash. He is probably cringing on the inside but will never show it.