Hobbes' Choice wrote:
I'm always happy to explain what happened and my reasons. She is more than happy that nothing I do has ever intended to hurt her, and thus deserves no apology.
Yeah, but Hobbes, I don't think there are many people out there who really intend to harm... Life just gets in the way. The desire to fulfill ones own needs sometimes supercedes the needs of others. Although harm was not intended, full filling ones desires at the expense of others, even though unintentional, harms another.
My husband likes to read the newspaper, there are always little black finger prints on the white doors and molding that I have to look at and subsequtly clean. I don't like to clean, but I also don't like to look at black finger prints. He doesn't know that this harms me...albeit in a little way. My point is, life happens. It is nice to acknowledge, maybe once in a while , that one is a little sorry for the inconvenience.
My reaction to this is that you might need to get a life? The fact that you are obsessed with small fingerprints is yours to own. There is nothing necessary or natural about this phobia.
If you point out this thing to your husband he will react in a way that is commensurate with his character. He might be more aware of the "problem" you have with his behaviour, or he might think that you are some sort of compulsive obsessive cleaner. He might suggest that you learn to live with a little more disorder, or he might wear gloves.
But there is no right way about this. You either accept him for who he is, or leave him. He might be willing to change for you, he might not. But you could just as easily try to change to accommodate him.
I do not see any case for an apology in this scenario.
LOL...gotcha. The above rebuttal of yours is meant to harm. You intended harm in telling me to 'get a life.' You tried to insult me by calling me obsessive. It doesn't bother me, as I know where it is coming from.
I am sure, dear hobbes, you need to apologize to another as you are not as innocent as you may think.
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
My reaction to this is that you might need to get a life? The fact that you are obsessed with small fingerprints is yours to own. There is nothing necessary or natural about this phobia.
If you point out this thing to your husband he will react in a way that is commensurate with his character. He might be more aware of the "problem" you have with his behaviour, or he might think that you are some sort of compulsive obsessive cleaner. He might suggest that you learn to live with a little more disorder, or he might wear gloves.
But there is no right way about this. You either accept him for who he is, or leave him. He might be willing to change for you, he might not. But you could just as easily try to change to accommodate him.
I do not see any case for an apology in this scenario.
Hmm, I thought so. You are obviously one of those inconsiderate people who thinks that your spouse is your own personal slave. Not wanting black smudges all over the doors and walls is hardly being 'obsessive compulsive'. Do you ever consider the feelings of others? You probably leave the toilet seat up too, and spray crumbs all over the kitchen bench without bothering to wipe them up. The house doesn't clean itself you know. Some people don't like to live in filth, never mind the ants and mice it attracts.
I regret a good deal of things I did as drunk when in university and have apologized for them. A person that has nothing to regret or ask apologies for is from the planet Krypton. Theoretically, I can agree to the OP but hey, the brain is a fuzzy place in a fuzzy world, and things simply does not always come out at their best.
artisticsolution wrote:
LOL...gotcha. The above rebuttal of yours is meant to harm. You intended harm in telling me to 'get a life.' You tried to insult me by calling me obsessive. It doesn't bother me, as I know where it is coming from.
I am sure, dear hobbes, you need to apologize to another as you are not as innocent as you may think.
It's the polite well mannered thing to do.
You don't get it do you.
I am not going to apologise for what I think, and who I am. If you want to, then do so.
The fact that your husband does not mind a fingerprint on the paint work, is not his problem it is yours. Neither he nor you need apologise. These are the very aspects of your characters that make you who and what you are.
I have no intention of causing you harm - I don't even know you. I was simply being honest. If you take that as abuse, then look to yourself. I am who I am, take it or leave it. I'm too old to be bothered by cheap meaningless conventions.
artisticsolution wrote:
LOL...gotcha. The above rebuttal of yours is meant to harm. You intended harm in telling me to 'get a life.' You tried to insult me by calling me obsessive. It doesn't bother me, as I know where it is coming from.
I am sure, dear hobbes, you need to apologize to another as you are not as innocent as you may think.
It's the polite well mannered thing to do.
You don't get it do you.
I am not going to apologise for what I think, and who I am. If you want to, then do so.
The fact that your husband does not mind a fingerprint on the paint work, is not his problem it is yours. Neither he nor you need apologise. These are the very aspects of your characters that make you who and what you are.
I have no intention of causing you harm - I don't even know you. I was simply being honest. If you take that as abuse, then look to yourself. I am who I am, take it or leave it. I'm too old to be bothered by cheap meaningless conventions.
Then you are a nasty old coot. Consideration for others is what holds society together.
artisticsolution wrote:
LOL...gotcha. The above rebuttal of yours is meant to harm. You intended harm in telling me to 'get a life.' You tried to insult me by calling me obsessive. It doesn't bother me, as I know where it is coming from.
I am sure, dear hobbes, you need to apologize to another as you are not as innocent as you may think.
It's the polite well mannered thing to do.
You don't get it do you.
I am not going to apologise for what I think, and who I am. If you want to, then do so.
The fact that your husband does not mind a fingerprint on the paint work, is not his problem it is yours. Neither he nor you need apologise. These are the very aspects of your characters that make you who and what you are.
I have no intention of causing you harm - I don't even know you. I was simply being honest. If you take that as abuse, then look to yourself. I am who I am, take it or leave it. I'm too old to be bothered by cheap meaningless conventions.
Then you are a nasty old coot. Consideration for others is what holds society together.
You still don't get it.
My consideration for others exceeds yours by bucketfuls.
How hateful of you to expect others to bow down to your ego and apologise to you?
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
You still don't get it.
My consideration for others exceeds yours by bucketfuls.
How hateful of you to expect others to bow down to your ego and apologise to you?
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
You still don't get it.
My consideration for others exceeds yours by bucketfuls.
How hateful of you to expect others to bow down to your ego and apologise to you?
I suggest you re-read the OP.
At least you can spell 'apologise'.
British spell-checker, I'm sure. I hate the American ones.
Sorry, HC, but my initial response is to say 'Never say 'Never'' - you might regret it.
Also, I haven't taken time to explore all your thoughts in the OP. Perhaps later...
This thread is under 'Applied Ethics'. So, I thought rather than spill out my current,vague views (or personal experiences) about regret and apologies, I would first check out what the terms can mean.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/apology/
Apology
An apology is the act of declaring one’s regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, harmed or wronged another. Some apologies are interpersonal (between individuals, that is, between friends, family members, colleagues, lovers, neighbours, or strangers). Other apologies are collective (by one group to another group or by a group to an individual). More generally, apologies can be offered “one to one,” “one to many,” “many to one,” or “many to many.”
While the practice of apologizing is nothing new, the end of the twentieth century and the beginning of the twenty-first witnessed a sharp rise in the number of public and political apologies, so much so that some scholars believe we are living in an “age of apology” (Gibney et al. 2006) or within a “culture of apology” (Mills 2001). A gesture formerly considered a sign of weakness has grown to represent moral strength and a crucial step towards potential reconciliation
Regret https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regret
Regret is a negative conscious and emotional reaction to personal past acts and behaviors. Regret is often expressed by the term "sorry" whereas "I'm sorry" can express both regret and sympathy. Regret is often a feeling of sadness, shame, embarrassment, depression, annoyance, or guilt, after one acts in a manner and later wishes not to have done so. Regret is distinct from guilt, which is a deeply emotional form of regret — one which may be difficult to comprehend in an objective or conceptual way. In this regard, the concept of regret is subordinate to guilt in terms of its emotional intensity. By comparison, shame typically refers to the social (rather than personal) aspect of guilt or (in minor context) regret as imposed by the society or culture (enforcement of ethics, morality), which has substantial bearing in matters of (personal and social) honor.
It is also distinct from remorse, which is a more direct and emotional form of regret over a past action that is considered by society to be hurtful, shameful, or violent. Unlike regret, it includes a strong element of desire for apology to others rather than an internal reflection on one's actions, and may be expressed (sincerely or not) in order to reduce the punishment one receives.
Regret can describe not only the dislike for an action that has been committed, but also, importantly, regret of inaction. Many people find themselves wishing that they had done something in a past situation.
marjoram_blues wrote:Sorry, HC, but my initial response is to say 'Never say 'Never'' - you might regret it.
Also, I haven't taken time to explore all your thoughts in the OP. Perhaps later...
This thread is under 'Applied Ethics'. So, I thought rather than spill out my current,vague views (or personal experiences) about regret and apologies, I would first check out what the terms can mean.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/apology/
Apology
An apology is the act of declaring one’s regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, harmed or wronged another. Some apologies are interpersonal (between individuals, that is, between friends, family members, colleagues, lovers, neighbours, or strangers). Other apologies are collective (by one group to another group or by a group to an individual). More generally, apologies can be offered “one to one,” “one to many,” “many to one,” or “many to many.”
While the practice of apologizing is nothing new, the end of the twentieth century and the beginning of the twenty-first witnessed a sharp rise in the number of public and political apologies, so much so that some scholars believe we are living in an “age of apology” (Gibney et al. 2006) or within a “culture of apology” (Mills 2001). A gesture formerly considered a sign of weakness has grown to represent moral strength and a crucial step towards potential reconciliation
Regret https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regret
Regret is a negative conscious and emotional reaction to personal past acts and behaviors. Regret is often expressed by the term "sorry" whereas "I'm sorry" can express both regret and sympathy. Regret is often a feeling of sadness, shame, embarrassment, depression, annoyance, or guilt, after one acts in a manner and later wishes not to have done so. Regret is distinct from guilt, which is a deeply emotional form of regret — one which may be difficult to comprehend in an objective or conceptual way. In this regard, the concept of regret is subordinate to guilt in terms of its emotional intensity. By comparison, shame typically refers to the social (rather than personal) aspect of guilt or (in minor context) regret as imposed by the society or culture (enforcement of ethics, morality), which has substantial bearing in matters of (personal and social) honor.
It is also distinct from remorse, which is a more direct and emotional form of regret over a past action that is considered by society to be hurtful, shameful, or violent. Unlike regret, it includes a strong element of desire for apology to others rather than an internal reflection on one's actions, and may be expressed (sincerely or not) in order to reduce the punishment one receives.
Regret can describe not only the dislike for an action that has been committed, but also, importantly, regret of inaction. Many people find themselves wishing that they had done something in a past situation.
What's your point?
Explanations are far more fruitful. "Never" shows resolve.
The nearest I will get to being 'sorry' is feeling sorry for another person about matters over which I have no control.
If a person feels I have done wrong, I can for a moment say I am sorry they feel that way, and offer an explanation. If that is not good enough, saying sorry being an admission of guilt will not be forthcoming from me, and they will just have to accept the facts are they stand. Consequences can be dealt with as much as possible, and an offer of help is far better than any apology or feeling of regret which empty.
"Sorry" is often a way to get off the hook. That is dishonest.
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
I do not see any case for an apology in this scenario.
Because you don't see any case for an apology in any scenario.
Personally, I find them useful in the manipulation of situations and people to my advantage. Always delivered devoid of sentiment, always received graciously by the other party with no clue that it wasn't really meant. I am happy to be insincere to make myself appear to care that they care that I hurt them. Isn't that the kind of pro social behaviour that our society was built upon?
Hobbes post is just a way for him to pat himself on the back, as being a tough guy. That's his shtick, watch it or he'll pull out his BMW, another way to say, "hey look at me, I'm it." I call them boys!
"A man's a man that looks a man right between the eyes" -CS&N-
A man can take a punch on the proverbial chin and keep on smiling, while a boy punches back.
A man can take the heat, while the boy runs like hell to get out of the kitchen.
A man can admit when he's wrong, while the boy says he never is.
The man is brave, and can weather all things, while the boy is a coward and has to run for cover.
What the boy sees in his mirror is a facade, because he can't face the truth.
He who cannot criticize himself, is one of the biggest cowards of them all!
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
I do not see any case for an apology in this scenario.
Because you don't see any case for an apology in any scenario.
Personally, I find them useful in the manipulation of situations and people to my advantage. Always delivered devoid of sentiment, always received graciously by the other party with no clue that it wasn't really meant. I am happy to be insincere to make myself appear to care that they care that I hurt them. Isn't that the kind of pro social behaviour that our society was built upon?
Interesting.
I guess I'm just too honest to want to apologise.
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
I do not see any case for an apology in this scenario.
Because you don't see any case for an apology in any scenario.
Personally, I find them useful in the manipulation of situations and people to my advantage. Always delivered devoid of sentiment, always received graciously by the other party with no clue that it wasn't really meant. I am happy to be insincere to make myself appear to care that they care that I hurt them. Isn't that the kind of pro social behaviour that our society was built upon?
Interesting.
I guess I'm just too honest to want to apologise.
Sorry, but I'm sure that you meant too cowardly, as that is exactly what it is! But I can see you substituting the truth for a lie, it behooves you!
ncrbrts, not unlike 'worm-tongue' if he were sincere, but I sense that he's jerking someones chain. Then again I could be wrong about his insincerity! All that matters though, is that he knows which it is. Save the intended duped victim, of formidable ability, of course!
When I apologize, and I do, I wait so I can reflect and mean it with sincerity. I know I can do and say stupid things, and try to do the right thing by people.
Anyone who can't do that is insecure and weak, and just maybe a bit of a jerk.
