Atheism or God? - our perception of reality.

[Dalek Prime]

I consider myself a Christian, by my definition, and not by anyone else's. My belief is very simple, I believe there is a God and Jesus was the Christ. I would stress that this is what I believe, I don't claim to know.

Fair enough. To each his own.

[Dalek Prime]

I do want to say though, this is why many get frustrated with theists. The burden of proof for a divine being rests with those selling it, yet when someone questions it hard, the big red button of faith gets pushed, and we're told to simply accept that unassailable faith, and move on. For an atheist, this is exasperating. Thankfully for me, I view it like someone telling me a tall fishing tale. It doesn't effect me whether he caught a fish that looks like a mermaid and married him, as long as he's not asking me for money for a mail-order mermaid. I just nod and say "congratulations to the happy couple".

[Dalek Prime]

Double post, for the umpteenth time...

[Obvious Leo]

.I just nod and say "congratulations to the happy couple".

That just shows what a courteous and gentlemanly Canuck you are, Dalek. I would suggest that it was time to change his dealer because he'd obviously been sold some dodgy gear. Obviously I am not a gentleman.

[Dalek Prime]

True meaning of a "trophy wife", Leo, when you can mount her over the mantle.

Funny thing, Leo. I just don't give a crap whether God exists. If he does, I disagree with him. If he doesn't, I have only my parents to blame for hauling me into this world. They should have stopped at one less child. I wouldn't have been the wiser. And i wouldn't be awaiting damnation if he does.

[Obvious Leo]

I really try to appreciate faith Leo. I really do. I want people to feel they have a deeper purpose, because I know I don't, and how that can feel. But I want people to be honest about faith, and to keep it personal. That it's not rational. I'm tired of being condescended to because I lack it... Poor Dalek. I'll pray for you."

I know how you feel, mate. Like most non-believers I couldn't care less what other people choose to believe or not believe and all I ask is that I be extended the same courtesy. I'm offended when it's suggested to me that I am in some way morally inferior because of my lack of belief and I'm doubly offended at the suggestion that my lack of belief deprives me of a spiritual dimension to my life. However I was brought up as a good Christian and know what I must do in such situations. I must turn the other cheek and forgive them, for they know not what they do.

[Dalek Prime]

Lol! I erased that post, but it still stands. I am an outcast to most commonly accepted things, Leo. Religion and natalism. I am a freak amongst men. Anyhow, enough of my ramblings. Goodnight.

[Obvious Leo]

Funny thing, Leo. I just don't give a crap whether God exists.

And if he does he doesn't give a crap whether you believe in him or not. My mother told me this. She was a devout Christian, although she never foisted her beliefs on others. I sacked god as a boy and she never once took me to task over it and never spoke of god to me. It was I who raised the subject with her not long before her death and this is what she said to me: god couldn't care less what you believe, son, he only cares about how you live your life.

My mother knew a hell of a lot more about god than any of these pulpit- thumping blowhards could ever possibly know.

[Dalek Prime]

If he exists, I know he doesn't give a crap about me or what I think of him.

"Right back at ya, big guy. Do your worst. You effed up, ya big bully, and I'll keep buzzing about it in your ear, wherever you send me."

How's that for mad ramblings.

[Skip]

thedoc -
I have repeatedly posted that I do not accept the Bible or Biblical accounts as history. I see the OT as mythology and I question the events of the NT but not the lessons taught. So where have I posted that I value the testimony of the apostles over more recent testimony?

I'm having a problem with these two statements. If the above is so, then what is the source of this:

I consider myself a Christian, by my definition, and not by anyone else's. My belief is very simple, I believe there is a God and Jesus was the Christ. I would stress that this is what I believe, I don't claim to know.

?

And that courtroom drama was wonderfully apt. Why, after all, would the police check the whereabouts of an accused before bringing charges? Why, indeed, would either prosecution or defence attorneys during pre-trial depositions? Faith-based jurisprudence.

[Obvious Leo]

How's that for mad ramblings.

You've probably made his day, mate, and I'd imagine he'd have a hell of a boring life knowing everything. He's probably thinking to himself "I like that bloke. He's a cheeky bastard but at least he's got balls."

[Dalek Prime]

Thanks Leo.

Channeling Bill now...

[ReliStuPhD]

Not necessarily. Conspiracy theories, almost by nature, set a bar for proof/disproof so high that it is rarely something that can satisfied. They often operate like products of an overactive imagination (which, like the doc, I'm inclined to think they are).

Hmmm, this sounds familiar, and if I replaced "conspiracy theories" with "religion", that's exactly the response an atheist would give. Just saying.

I think that's certainly a fair connection to make, and I think thedoc's point about the expectation of taking religion on faith is a good reply. As for the rest of what you all have written, I'm too tired to do it justice.

Oh, and the cartoon? Perfect!

[Dalek Prime]

Yeah, a bit of comic relief never hurt anyone. Sleep well, RS.

Goodnight all.

[thedoc]

Why are you getting defensive, Doc? Show me where I'm painting all Christians with the same brush, and I'll retract.

Getting on, I didn't say you accepted the testimony of the apostles, or the history. I simply said that "if you say...". Note the if, please... So, if you disparage witnessing in general, you must put in doubt any other people who witness anything of the miraculous. Unless, you think they are better witnesses than those in a courtroom.

Stop feeling you're being attacked, please Doc. Leave it out of our discussions.

Sorry, but too many times I have read a post that claims that "if you are a Christian then this is what you believe". While that might be true for many, if not the majority, usually it is not true for me. And I have tried to make that quite clear. Even reading with the "if" it read as if you were describing what you thought my beliefs were.

Yes, I disparage witnesses as it is currently exhibited, but in Biblical times the oral tradition was much stronger and more accurate. I do not make the mistake of trying to compare people of today with people then, however no matter how accurate the testimony of the apostles may have been, that account has been rewritten and translated so many times by fallible men, that it is probably unrecognizable from the original. That being said, I still consider that most of the NT was on the same level as a parable, a made up story to teach a lesson. After all, it is written that Jesus taught mostly in parables, why not consider much of the rest as a kind of parable.

If I reacted as if being attacked, I apologize, in fact I welcome the occasional attack on some point, because I then need to consider that point more carefully. It just gets a little tiresome when the same point is brought up. This sort of thing over the years has led me to my current position of only holding a limited set of beliefs, and holding the rest with some skepticism. This is why I post on the religion threads of atheist sites rather than religion forums. Usually the religion forums are so overrun with so much praise and adoration of God and each other, that I doubt that God even looks in on it.