Is jobs = wage slavery?

[Ned]

‘Jobs’ is one of the sacred words today. Anything can be justified by “creating jobs”.

Never mind what the jobs do: weapons of mass destruction, environmental damage, beating up protestors – a job is a job, considered a net plus.

Some people say they love their jobs, maybe because they really do, maybe because they never tried an alternative.

When I started out, after graduating, I had a job. An older friend told me, in an unusually bitter voice: “Never try to make a living with something close to your heart – they will make you hate it!”

I soon found out what he meant.

According to a maxim, at one of the places I worked: “shit always rises to the top”. It seems to be a universal law.

As I got older, I started thinking of jobs as the cage they put zoo animals in: they trade their freedom for a reliable supply of food they don’t have to think about, hunt about.

I have not had jobs for a very long time, being an independent consultant for decades before I retired. The idea of having to have a job makes me nauseated – now I live on my wits, plan my days any way I wish and the small online book business we operate brings in enough money to provide a comfortable living (in addition to the miniscule government pension).

So my question is this: how many of you TRULY love your job, are proud of your contribution to the world and can not imagine doing the same activities better if you were in charge?

[thedoc]

‘Jobs’ is one of the sacred words today. Anything can be justified by “creating jobs”.

So my question is this: how many of you TRULY love your job, are proud of your contribution to the world and can not imagine doing the same activities better if you were in charge?

I'm retired now, so I will need to be referencing the jobs I have had, My first job was teaching, and I left after 7 years, inertia is strong and I later realized that I wasn't very good at it. Other jobs that I liked, involved making things. I was a draftsman for several years, I enjoyed making drawings, but had a real problem with the environment. I was working in a large company and I pissed too many people off, I had read "The Peter Principle" and firmly believed that if I found something I liked and was good at, I would stay there. That wasn't good enough for the company, they wanted people who wanted to move up. I also worked in 2 different machine shops operating drill presses, milling machines and turret lathes. I enjoyed the work and the last shop was small, and I didn't upset anyone. My last job, after retiring, was taking care on 2 of my grandchildren from birth till they were in school, they'll probably be here over the summer. First my grandson who is now 9, and his older brother, then my granddaughter, who in now 5. They are both now in school and the Mother and Father have work schedules that allow them to have the children, so they aren't with me very much, only on the weekend for sure. I will add that in both machine shops and as a draftsman, I was able to correct the errors of those above me, so in a way I did do it better even though I was not in charge.

[Ned]

doc, have you never tried a business of your own?

[thedoc]

doc, have you never tried a business of your own?

I owned a hobby shop for 11 years, made several mistakes, and finally closed it. There were parts of the business I liked, meeting others who shared my interests, but dealing with dishonest customers really spoiled it for me

[Ned]

It sounds like you are an old-timer, like me.

We have been around a few circles, have tried a few different things in life.

You seem to be able to maintain your equanimity, probably with the help of your faith.

I, on the other hand often despair over the stupidity and viciousness of my species.

Let me illustrate:


The prospector

The prospector is old,
dim eyes searching for elusive glitter,
gnarled fingers still looking for gold,
but all he finds is useless litter.

He thinks he will give it up soon,
abandon this futile obsession,
stop humming this haunting tune,
extinguish a life-long passion.

It’s hard to know what new role
he might find in a hopeless life,
not looking for gold in their soul,
accepting the dullness and spite.

[thedoc]

It sounds like you are an old-timer, like me.

We have been around a few circles, have tried a few different things in life.

You seem to be able to maintain your equanimity, probably with the help of your faith.

I, on the other hand often despair over the stupidity and viciousness of my species.

Let me illustrate:


The prospector

The prospector is old,
dim eyes searching for elusive glitter,
gnarled fingers still looking for gold,
but all he finds is useless litter.

He thinks he will give it up soon,
abandon this futile obsession,
stop humming this haunting tune,
extinguish a life-long passion.

It’s hard to know what new role
he might find in a hopeless life,
not looking for gold in their soul,
accepting the dullness and spite.

I'm an "old timer" enough to think of this as the "good stuff".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amDo-KqUjpA

[Skip]

Whether employment is wage-slavery (by which I suppose we mean financial entrapment, rather than physical bondage) would depend on the organization of the society in which it takes place.

If you have a pretty good constitution, a relatively uncorrupted representative government, a reasonably just legal system, good public education and social welfare funded by sound taxation policy, and strong labour unions, then employment can be all right.

Doing large, co-operative projects under the auspices of an administration dedicated to such projects can be more efficient with employees than contractors: the chain of command is simpler, and so are the rules. Workers might feel more free and independent if they don't have a stake in the company; can take a job for a year or two, then move on to another one when they're bored, or take time off to raise a family, or go back to school, on their own schedule - without letting the side down. Some people are better at administration, some are not responsible enough to work unsupervised; some are steadfast and some are restless; some have a highly specialized skill-set; some are generalists; some are sociable, some are loners. If you have teams and team leaders who understand how best to deploy the available talent, the work-force can be reconfigured for optimal efficacy in each enterprise, each assignment.

I have had jobs I liked in health care, and I've also liked being in a small family business, and freelancing. I see no reason why we can't devise a society that allows people to do valuable work that they're proud of, have enough leisure and material goods, balance liberty with security and be happy.

[Ned]

Whether employment is wage-slavery (by which I suppose we mean financial entrapment, rather than physical bondage) would depend on the organization of the society in which it takes place.

Yes, it is the organization of this society (North American) I am talking about.

I know that there are exceptions to the rule even here, but it is the rule that depresses me. I have seen it so many times.

So I started this thread to hear from others who have had positive job-experiences.

Sounds like you are one of them, Skip.

[Skip]

Many people like their work; not many people like their bosses. We just need to slice off the top four layers of executive.


(*No, no, no! I only mean, retrain them for something useful like babysitting or road-mending.)

[Ned]

Many people like their work; not many people like their bosses. We just need to slice off the top four layers of executive.


(*No, no, no! I only mean, retrain them for something useful like babysitting or road-mending.)

Amen!

[Pluto]

If find the word WORK horrendous, when it means that thing we must do to live. When I see it in action, no matter what job it is, I see only a chain-gang. There doesn't seem to be jobs where one would feel good about doing it. Most jobs seem to enhance the corruption and pain. Are there jobs worth doing?

[Ned]

There doesn't seem to be jobs where one would feel good about doing it. ... Are there jobs worth doing?

I am sure lots of people would disagree with you, Pluto, as Skip just did. Yes, there are jobs worth doing (I am always grateful to doctors, for example). The problem, as Skip commented on so eloquently is the top layer of any organization.

Just like in politics: power attracts those least suited to handle it.

Or, as I quoted earlier: "Shit rises to the top".

Not always, but depressingly frequently.

[garygary]

"Shit rises to the top"

Gentlemen, is this philosophy?

Could it not equally be said that shit sinks to the bottom?

I suppose everyone is pushing an agenda. And philosophy loses.

[Ned]

"Shit rises to the top"

Gentlemen, is this philosophy?

Sorry, gary, I quoted an expression I have heard far too often in the corporate world.

[garygary]

Speaking of jobs and wage slavery: I must put forth effort to survive. This is the root of survival in the animal kingdom, and after all, I am nothing but another animal on this planet. For thousands of years, people eked out a living groveling in the dirt searching for shelter and something to eat. The semi-socialist-capitalist-corporate system (or whatever one prefers to call it) has provided me with a means to escape groveling in the dirt wondering where my next meal is coming from.

I am a dumb-ass country boy who became an electrician. I work 40+ hours per week. I have never owned my own business. When I was in high school, I held menial part time jobs. I have liked every one of my bosses. They were good people. I like who I work for now... great people! I have a decent income, I own 1 acre of land, have a modest home, and a couple of vehicles. I have a garden in the backyard. I have a good family. Some leisure time. I am rich beyond measure. The world I live in is an amazing place. I see opportunity, comforts, and luxury here in North America. What I see is that a person with a good work ethic and responsibility has tremendous opportunity to be successful.

I often wonder what role jealousy plays in forming our opinions of the social and economic situation we find ourselves in. I do not begrudge Bill Gates or Exxon.

I am reminded of the Sheryl Crow song "Soak Up The Sun."

I am not a slave to the capitalist system. On the contrary, I benefit greatly from it. If I am indeed a slave, then it is the very laws of nature that are my master.