Why did God create so many idiots?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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ReliStuPhD
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by ReliStuPhD »

Ned wrote:No.

You and I have had extensive exchanges already in the "Where was god before..." thread.
OK. I'll find them myself.
Ned wrote:If you wish to put me in your ignore list, please be my guest. :)
And no, I generally don't put people on my ignore list. I'd rather just show where their arguments don't hold. I only add them if they're particularly rude or mentally deficient. You strike me as neither.

EDIT: That proved easier than I thought. Well, since you've not presented any logical arguments here, I agree that there's no need to start another debate (though it does make your response to thedoc a bit unfair). You're just arguing your own beliefs, so that's cool. That you think they're logical and "crystal clear" while others of us think they're not just puts you in the same boat as the rest of us: The SS Why-Can't-People-Just-See-That-I'm-Right (we really need a less cumbersome name). Welcome aboard, matey! :)

PS Someday we're going to have to quote your comments on religion and substitute "vegetarianism."

"I tried to be a [vegetarian] once once, but I never got past the '[no meat]'.

Damn boring and tedious!" :twisted:
Pluto
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by Pluto »

To answer the thread, maybe you are a god, in that you are not an idiot, an idiot and his friends see themselves not as idiots, yet you do, from your position. Your high position. Of course we have nurture and nature, our society on the whole prefers making idiots. Why does society create so many idiots? Because they are easier to work with.
Ned
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by Ned »

thedoc wrote:
Ned wrote:
Pluto wrote:
What would you hate him for?
The basic 'design' idea of predation. Immeasurable amount of fear, pain and suffering as a result. Being omniscient (as the christians claim) 'he' had no excuse not knowing what would happen.

So, either 'he' didn't care, or 'he' is a sadistic bastard.

But, of course 'he' doesn't exist, being only a figment of the imagination -- an invisible friend.
What I don't understand is, if God is an invisible friend, a figment of Christians imagination, why do you feel anything at all. You make accusations toward an entity that you claim doesn't exist, why not just ignore the idea completely, and let others to their delusions? Do others having a delusion bother you so much, why don't you just let it go, what are you so obsessed about?
doc, I have already explained it to you in the "Where was 'god' before.." thread.

I will refresh your memory (quoting from the post you have already read once):

"And it is not just a harmless delusion either.

Spreading religion is one of the greatest crimes one can commit against individuals and society. Not because the priests are evil (even though plenty of those among them) but because religion attacks the fundamental rules of rational thinking in people, especially the young and not quite mature minds, and thus can cause great harm.

If the priest is a nice and helpful person, wanting to help everyone, the harm is even greater because, being likeable, more people will listen to him and trust him.

The social insanity, all around us, such as crime, corruption, war, exploitation, etc., is possible only because the majority of citizens is unable to think clearly, logically, critically, and by analyzing the symptoms, see the causes and the solutions.

Religion is most harmful because the ‘faith’ they insist on is contrary to the basic rules of scientific and logical thought process. If the religion’s victim believes the childish, ridiculous, contradictory and illogical tenets of the church, this only proves that the victim gave up his right to independent and critical thinking and, consequently, will fall victim to the unscrupulous and corrupt politicians and business people, who are the main cause of the terrible problems facing their nation.

There is no alternative to logical and critical thought processes: either we know how to discover reality and truth, or we fall prey to our exploiters.

The main accomplishment of religions, not just now but throughout all history, has been exactly that".

I can't spell it out any more clearly than that.

I am sure you disagree and that is fine with me.

You asked me a question and I answered, even though there is no hope in hell that I could ever get through to you. I have been trying very hard, in dozens of posts, and you either evaded, ignored or deliberately misunderstood my posts and the pointed questions that I presented to you.

Welded shut, indeed.
thedoc
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by thedoc »

Ned wrote:
thedoc wrote: What I don't understand is, if God is an invisible friend, a figment of Christians imagination, why do you feel anything at all. You make accusations toward an entity that you claim doesn't exist, why not just ignore the idea completely, and let others to their delusions? Do others having a delusion bother you so much, why don't you just let it go, what are you so obsessed about?
doc, I have already explained it to you in the "Where was 'god' before.." thread.

I will refresh your memory (quoting from the post you have already read once):

"And it is not just a harmless delusion either.

Spreading religion is one of the greatest crimes one can commit against individuals and society. Not because the priests are evil (even though plenty of those among them) but because religion attacks the fundamental rules of rational thinking in people, especially the young and not quite mature minds, and thus can cause great harm.

If the priest is a nice and helpful person, wanting to help everyone, the harm is even greater because, being likeable, more people will listen to him and trust him.

The social insanity, all around us, such as crime, corruption, war, exploitation, etc., is possible only because the majority of citizens is unable to think clearly, logically, critically, and by analyzing the symptoms, see the causes and the solutions.

Religion is most harmful because the ‘faith’ they insist on is contrary to the basic rules of scientific and logical thought process. If the religion’s victim believes the childish, ridiculous, contradictory and illogical tenets of the church, this only proves that the victim gave up his right to independent and critical thinking and, consequently, will fall victim to the unscrupulous and corrupt politicians and business people, who are the main cause of the terrible problems facing their nation.

There is no alternative to logical and critical thought processes: either we know how to discover reality and truth, or we fall prey to our exploiters.

The main accomplishment of religions, not just now but throughout all history, has been exactly that".

I can't spell it out any more clearly than that.

I am sure you disagree and that is fine with me.

You asked me a question and I answered, even though there is no hope in hell that I could ever get through to you. I have been trying very hard, in dozens of posts, and you either evaded, ignored or deliberately misunderstood my posts and the pointed questions that I presented to you.

Welded shut, indeed.
You seem to be of the opinion that it's either Religion or Rational Thought, I would suggest that a person could be both a believer and a rational thinker. There is no reason to think that one excludes the other, unless you don't really understand one or both of them. Your posts have demonstrated that you are just as dogmatic and rigid in your thinking, as you accuse Religious people of being.
David Handeye
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by David Handeye »

thedoc wrote:Your posts have demonstrated that you are just as dogmatic and rigid in your thinking, as you accuse Religious people of being.
No... who? Ned? I'd have never said it! mmh..
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ReliStuPhD
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by ReliStuPhD »

thedoc wrote:Your posts have demonstrated that you are just as dogmatic and rigid in your thinking, as you accuse Religious people of being.
You need to add "irrational." Ned is certainly not approaching this particular topic with a rational mind.
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by Ned »

Pluto wrote: Why does society create so many idiots? Because they are easier to work with.
The thread title was tongue-in-cheek, being facetious, since I don't believe that there was a 'god' that created anything.

Society itself, as a complex entity, doesn't create idiots either.

It is the power elite in politics, business and the church that create idiots by the well executed dumbing-down process that works on every level from the cradle to the grave. By not teaching critical thinking in the schools and idiotic propaganda and advertising in the media, they confuse people to the point of giving up trying to understand anything. Instead of the much needed scientific education they promote reality shows and celebrity worship, sprinkled generously with religious eye-rolling and bible-thumping.

Then the victims are helpless and hopeless putty in the hands of their exploiters.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

ReliStuPhD wrote: Of course, I may simply have missed it, in which case, mea culpa.)
Ned wrote:
ReliStuPhD wrote:
Ned wrote:
You did.

Mea culpa is accepted.

:)
Hahaha. Fair enough. :)

EDIT: I haven't been following this thread closely. Could you point out which post(s) it was so I can give it a read?
No.

You and I have had extensive exchanges already in the "Where was god before..." thread.

Doc and I just finished another extensive debate on religion.

I don't want to start another at the moment.

There are other interesting subjects I wish to discuss.

If you wish to put me in your ignore list, please be my guest. :)
Everybody: Ned seems to be one of those ostrich people that believes if he buries his head in the sand the truth of his falsehoods shall go away. It's easy that way, because you can always be right, at least in your own mind.

Does anyone believe or think they know that, that is in fact the way a philosopher should go about things?

I think that in fact there are many people that prefer to bury their head in the sand, for fear they might have to change their self-serving views.

Even though that's true, it doesn't mean that God created them as idiots. No!! It means that they're just another one, that for whatever reason, fear facing that which they fear. Best to turn their heads and see only the good things in life, if only it were possible for the bad things to then disappear.

But wait a minute. Could we humans know good without bad? I mean, if there were no idiots, by our own self serving definitions, could we know their opposite. Contrast seems to be everything. And it seems to me that the wider the difference between the blackest black and whitest white, gives us a far better white, because of the far worse black, or vice versa depending upon one's perspective. So in a sense bad is in fact good, as it delineates good.

Lets just hope that the difference between the two becomes only ever wider, while at the same time climbing up the scale towards the good, such that what is now good some day becomes the bad, and the good is an ever higher ideal. Of course then our wisest become the idiots, but then that would be a fair trade off for an even wiser wise.

Relativity, to be considered more than just in the context of time and space.

So your gods never created idiots, while only the idiots believe so, because they are incapable of seeing the bigger picture, the actual truth of the matter.
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by Ned »

The short answer to the question of this thread is that 'he' was lonely and needed believers. :wink:
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attofishpi
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by attofishpi »

Ned wrote:The short answer to the question of this thread is that 'he' was lonely and needed believers. :wink:
I thought it more likely he wanted to have a bunch of atheists aboard the ship.
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by thedoc »

attofishpi wrote: I thought it more likely he wanted to have a bunch of atheists aboard the ship.
Are you saying that because there are Atheists, that is proof of God's existence. The belief is that God gave man free will, that there are those who choose not to believe, is proof of this free will. If man did not have free will, God could have just made man to believe, and there would be no choice. If believing in God were automatic and not freely chosen, it wouldn't be worth anything at all.
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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.....Why did so many idiots create god?





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Image







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Pluto
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by Pluto »

It is the power elite in politics, business and the church that create idiots by the well executed dumbing-down process that works on every level from the cradle to the grave. By not teaching critical thinking in the schools and idiotic propaganda and advertising in the media, they confuse people to the point of giving up trying to understand anything. Instead of the much needed scientific education they promote reality shows and celebrity worship, sprinkled generously with religious eye-rolling and bible-thumping.
The above is a definition of society for me
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Personally, I've never said there was no creator, just that there is no god. Because the god that everyone harps about, is so obviously mankind's creation, surely not a god. The reason I see this as true is because mankind is largely petty, and in this image, how could a creator of all the universe be that?

This topic for instance, seeing different "beliefs," which in fact is simply difference in peoples environmental inputs, as idiotic and surely a gods fault, is absurd. As then, these that see idiocy in others, don't have to wonder why their "belief" is considered idiotic by those they've classified as idiots.

It sounds like a no win, idiotic situation, of pettiness to me. Because these that take stock in such an idiotic situation certainly can't see it for what it is, that they then have to blame gods for ones idiocy. They certainly can't understand the "why" and "how" of it or they'd look in the mirror and point their finger at the true culprit. They are guilty of such ridiculousness because the truth is they don't have a handle on what it is in being human, what distance, environment, peer pressure, fears, thus culture, etc, has to do with it all, that they blame some invisible, man made entity. Even then for some to be contradictory by believing humans are made in it's image, their way to perform, what I call, a psychological mind fuck, and elevate themselves to their version of godhood, because surely if they are in his image...

..and this feeds their momentum.

Talk about a viscous cycle...

Clearly many are such idiots to believe that these contradictory views can co-exist. Oh that's right it's always the other guy, right?...

But then is surely seems that humans are good at psychological mind fucks, as 'most' do it everyday, no?

Stop pointing your finger at the symptom and instead try pointing at what it really is, the actual causal. Try understanding the why and how of the differences between us, instead of simply trying to elevate yourself above all others, so you can feel good about you. If everyone understood the truth of human existence, the in and outs of their and all other psyches, there would no longer be any discernible differences between us, we'd just step knowledge up a notch to include a much higher level of understanding. All the mindless chatter of indifference to difference would, instead of being a pissing game, so as to falsely elevate self, become superior intellect at solving humanities problem of pettiness born of ignorance, ignorance of the whys and hows of our differences. It's not them, it's you that can't see the us, the we, the actual truth of the matter, your fear to honestly face your psyche.

We are in fact one, but until we all see this fundamental truth we'll continue down the path to our extinction in our flurry of ignorance, as we spout allusions based on our illusions that are such falsehoods, simply to pacify self image, in the interim, and nothing more, until boom, there is nothing more; confused to the very last second.

What a stupid animal mankind is...

He 'knows' more about things, than he does himself, because he fears to simply look in the mirror, being 'honest' about what he sees...

Maybe that's just too much work for the stupid man animal...

I don't know, you decide...

Take an 'honest' look, if you can...

;)
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ReliStuPhD
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Re: Why did God create so many idiots?

Post by ReliStuPhD »

SpheresOfBalance wrote:Personally, I've never said there was no creator, just that there is no god. Because the god that everyone harps about, is so obviously mankind's creation, surely not a god. The reason I see this as true is because mankind is largely petty, and in this image, how could a creator of all the universe be that?
There's a lot to be said for this. For my part, when I refer to "God" I'm not necessarily speaking of the Christian one (or the Islamic one, etc). I think on the most basic of terms, "God" would be the "non-contingent ground of being." On that definition, nearly all religions believe in "God" since they hold to a supreme ground of being beyond which there is no greater. Whether that "God" is personal, etc is up to the various traditions to debate.
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