On death and dying...

[hazlett]

I invented mental games to counter depression. I have the kind of depression when I find it difficult to make any effort, when nothing seems worth the trouble. It does not happen often, but it is very unpleasant.

I imagine that I won 10 million on the lottery and start daydreaming about what I would do with it, how I would start, and really immerse myself in the fantasy. I imagine that I start an animal sanctuary on my land and hire people to help me with the project. I imagine that I start a fund for talented young artists and writers and musicians who celebrate the human spirit. These thoughts often cheer me up.

Sometime I think that now that I am retired, I have everything I could have killed for when I was young: I have no pressure of any kind, except those I put on myself. I am in excellent health, I am living in the country on 50 acres, surrounded by nature. I have exciting projects going in science, music, gardening, wood carving and have 24 hours a day to indulge in any of them. So I shame myself into shaking off the bad thoughts.

But most often I remember my youth, try to recall the happy adventures of body and mind and tell myself that there is no reason to quit life -- there is so much to live for.

Is that the reason why you think about dying and death?

[Ned]

I invented mental games to counter depression. I have the kind of depression when I find it difficult to make any effort, when nothing seems worth the trouble. It does not happen often, but it is very unpleasant.

I imagine that I won 10 million on the lottery and start daydreaming about what I would do with it, how I would start, and really immerse myself in the fantasy. I imagine that I start an animal sanctuary on my land and hire people to help me with the project. I imagine that I start a fund for talented young artists and writers and musicians who celebrate the human spirit. These thoughts often cheer me up.

Sometime I think that now that I am retired, I have everything I could have killed for when I was young: I have no pressure of any kind, except those I put on myself. I am in excellent health, I am living in the country on 50 acres, surrounded by nature. I have exciting projects going in science, music, gardening, wood carving and have 24 hours a day to indulge in any of them. So I shame myself into shaking off the bad thoughts.

But most often I remember my youth, try to recall the happy adventures of body and mind and tell myself that there is no reason to quit life -- there is so much to live for.

Is that the reason why you think about dying and death?

No, hazlett, I don't often think about death and dying but, at my age, it occurs to me once in a while that every day is a precious gift that I don't want to waste on depression.

[hazlett]

You should be happy because you get understand the profound meaning of life.

[Ned]

hazlett, I am happy -- happier than I have ever been in my life.

[Dalek Prime]

You should be happy because you get understand the profound meaning of life.

What profound meaning are you hawking, Hazlett. I've heard them all before, and none are worth purchasing. Meaning is personal. That's it. No more, and no less.

[hazlett]

What profound meaning are you hawking, Hazlett. I've heard them all before, and none are worth purchasing. Meaning is personal. That's it. No more, and no less.

Precisely, ned is talking about his personal experience.

[Dubious]

Forget about the movie but I think one should have the option to perform the final solution whenever the opposite to life manifests as a better choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOV8mBjHHYg

I imagine most people are familiar with this scene already. The music selections are first class likely picked by Edward G. himself who, from what I recall, died within a month of making the movie. Only the Magic Flute is missing.

[artisticsolution]

Forget about the movie but I think one should have the option to perform the final solution whenever the opposite to life manifests as a better choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOV8mBjHHYg

I imagine most people are familiar with this scene already. The music selections are first class likely picked by Edward G. himself who, from what I recall, died within a month of making the movie. Only the Magic Flute is missing.

Yes, It just makes practical sense as well as being humane.

[Ned]

Maybe the "Euthanasia debate" thread could be resurrected.

It was not very well discussed in the original thread.

I tried to revive it with a poem but no response.

Take a look at: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14917

[Dalek Prime]

Maybe the "Euthanasia debate" thread could be resurrected.

It was not very well discussed in the original thread.

I tried to revive it with a poem but no response.

Take a look at: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14917

Ned, totally recommend Sarah Perry for well thought out discussions on euthenasia and suicide. (See my list of antinatalism books.)

[Ned]

Maybe the "Euthanasia debate" thread could be resurrected.

It was not very well discussed in the original thread.

I tried to revive it with a poem but no response.

Take a look at: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14917

Ned, totally recommend Sarah Perry for well thought out discussions on euthenasia and suicide. (See my list of antinatalism books.)

Where is your list, Dalek?

OK, here is the poem I mentioned. I think it covers my own attitude. And, it is relevant to this thread about death and dying. (Often I can best express my deeply held convictions in poetry -- that's why I post so many -- it saves time and may be more convincing than pages and pages of facts and logic)

Euthanasia

I killed a child once:
its small, fragile body
convulsing, in helpless agony,
in the middle of the night.

It was the hardest
I ever had to do:
plastic bag over the head,
pillow over tiny body…

tears soaking my face,
resolute till the end,
until the struggle stopped
and, finally, she was dead.

It was ‘only’ a cat
but I loved it like a child,
loved it enough
to end its pointless suffering.

While most of us would
end the agony
of those we love,
and would want the help
when finally we'll need it --

our rulers say you can’t be
merciful to humans -
only to animals,…
they warn of abuse,
criminal negligence.

They fear exceptions,
they are afraid to think, to decide,
they feel safe with zero tolerance:
the hallmark of the craven
and the incompetent.

[Dalek Prime]

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15466

[Obvious Leo]

I think if this extremely delicate topic is to be discussed then an important distinction must first be made between euthanasia and assisted suicide. Although they are often conflated they are quite different questions and must be regarded as such. For instance I am morally repelled by the former yet cautiously in favour of the latter.

[Dalek Prime]

I think the problem is viewing some topics as "delicate". We have no problem with ignoring the ethical implications of bringing life into the world without a thought, though it's the sine qua non of all that follows, yet we get our panties in a bunch when we start discussing exit strategies. Sarah Perry puts this in perspective, and doesn't pull punches. I truly believe it's worth everyone's while to add her to your reading list before you discuss this in detail.

[Obvious Leo]

Fair point, mate, but perhaps I should explain what I meant by "delicate". I absolutely do not think that death should be a taboo subject not to be enquired into in a meaningful way. I was merely suggesting that this topical issue surrounding death should be handled sensitively in a forum such as this, perhaps without the robust banter which accompanies some other topics and to which I have no objection. For many people, including myself, this question is one which strikes very close to home because of personal friends or close family members who may be agonising over such options.