Would you work in a munitions factory?

[fiveredapples]

Ned, you coward and imbecile, quit littering this forum with non-philosophical posts. You're just suggesting that there's something immoral about joining the military. Vapid stuff. Grow a brain and learn to argue for your beliefs.

[Ned]

I gladly would pay well for a signed copy of Humane Physics.
I read a lot.. and collect authors. And a poet no less. how could i ask for more?
double that with authors who explore nuclear weapons and science ethic in general.

The "Jobs=wage slavery" thread reminded me of this thread I started a long time ago and came upon this post.

Hjarloprillar, if you are still an active member, and reading this, please contact me by PM, if you still wish to buy a signed copy. The second edition was published this January.

[Ned]

Ned, you coward and imbecile, ..... Grow a brain and learn to argue for your beliefs.

Another specimen for my ignore list.

[Dalek Prime]

Ned, you coward and imbecile, quit littering this forum with non-philosophical posts. You're just suggesting that there's something immoral about joining the military. Vapid stuff. Grow a brain and learn to argue for your beliefs.

Having served, myself, I would still like to point out that, at least in Confucian ethics, soldiers are ranked at the low end of the social hierarchy, as their reason for being is considered a necessary evil.

[Ned]

I started this thread almost 2 years ago, and had quite a few exchanges with members then.

It would be interesting to know how those of you who have not seen it yet, would answer the question in the OP?

This is part of the reason I resurrected it.

It would be a good idea to read through the whole thread (not very long) to make sure we don't go around the same circle.

[Melchior]

Hypothetical scenario:

You need a job and you have three offers:

- A bread factory
- A surgical instruments factory
- A munitions factory (land mines)

All else being equal, the pay in the munitions factory is double of what you would make at the other places.

Which job would you take?

All else equal, the munitions factory.

[Dalek Prime]

I agree with Melchior. I'd take the munitions job, all things being equal. They will be built anyways, and if I can't afford surgery, those scalpels will be of little use to me.

[David Handeye]

Ned, you coward and imbecile, quit littering this forum with non-philosophical posts. You're just suggesting that there's something immoral about joining the military. Vapid stuff. Grow a brain and learn to argue for your beliefs.

Ha! So you had fans also then, 25 Jan 2014. Good, let's see, coward, imbecile, non-philosophical posts, ha, nothing changed since then.

[Ned]

I agree with Melchior. I'd take the munitions job, all things being equal. They will be built anyways, and if I can't afford surgery, those scalpels will be of little use to me.

Dalek, have you read through the whole thread and considered all the arguments?

Just curious.

[Dalek Prime]

I agree with Melchior. I'd take the munitions job, all things being equal. They will be built anyways, and if I can't afford surgery, those scalpels will be of little use to me.

Dalek, have you read through the whole thread and considered all the arguments?

Just curious.

I can one up that. I was a combat engineer, dealing with mines. I missed one, and a young girl lost her life. No one blamed me or my team, but I do know, first hand, what is at stake here Ned. That I do know.

[Ned]

That must have been quite a shock, I imagine!

However, you did not answer my question about reading through the thread?

[Dalek Prime]

I haven't. Guilty as charged. I'll keep it down until I do.

Shock? It informs my view of humanity to this day, as well as God.

Addendum: I've now read the thread. What would you have me say that is different from what I said before? That I should be the only person on this planet to live by his ethics and suffer for it? I already do live by my ethics, and it has gotten me nowhere. You cannot change this filth that is humankind. And so I do not breed, to save any progeny from having to deal with it. Is that honest enough for you, Ned?

[Ned]

Honest enough, Dalek, no question about it.

We all make our compromises in this world and nobody can be 100% pure ethically speaking.

As I said before: the second you turn on a light switch, or fill up your car,you are already participating in, and benefiting from, unspeakable evil happening in the world right now.

So it is up to you how you make your compromise with the world as it is.

Personally, I have a horror of anything to do with wars: the unbelievable brutality, stupidity, destructiveness overwhelms my mind almost beyond endurance. So I would NEVER work in a munition factory, for any price at all.

'Patriotic' jingoism doesn't mean anything to me.

When I started this thread, 2 years ago, I was curious to learn how many people shared my abhorrence of anything military.

I realize that this is a very personal reaction and I am not judging those who feel differently.

However, I want to make sure that people make their decisions in full possession of all the relevant facts, without whitewashing the issue.

Those landmines that you might help build will probably blow the leg off of a young child somewhere in the world. You will have a direct connection with that victim, because your hand touched the mine that made him/her a cripple.

But I am sure you know this.

[Dalek Prime]

I've removed more mines as a peacekeeper than anyone talking about the horrors of these devices. I've nothing to be judged over, especially a hypothetical.

Want to make some change? Kick to the curb the only PM in my lifetime who got us involved in war. And keep this in mind; he never served in uniform. But you remember who did? Pearson, who then made us a peacekeeping nation. And while I'm at it, Eisenhower was the one to warn of the military industrial complex. So talk about the horrors of war, yes. But remember that those who have seen it, or what weapons can do, want it least.

[Obvious Leo]

I've removed more mines as a peacekeeper than anyone talking about the horrors of these devices. I've nothing to be judged over, especially a hypothetical.

Want to make some change? Kick to the curb the only PM in my lifetime who got us involved in war. And keep this in mind; he never served in uniform. But you remember who did? Pearson, who then made us a peacekeeping nation. And while I'm at it, Eisenhower was the one to warn of the military industrial complex. So talk about the horrors of war, yes. But remember that those who have seen it, or what weapons can do, want it least.

Good point. As an Australian I've seen my country get involved in many foreign wars which had nothing whatsoever to do with us, all at the urging of gung-ho politicians who didn't know their arses from their elbows. Always the most rational and thoughtful commentators on such actions have been senior military officers. Although I've never been in the military myself my assessment as a civilian of the top brass is that there isn't a warmonger amongst them.