Qualia

[SpheresOfBalance]

You still dont get it. NEVER said that my neurons do not facilitate my ability to visualize a triangle.
If neurons firing facilitates my triangle means NOTHING in the context of the argument.
No, it means everything!

So for you, holding a CD of Mozart's music is the same as hearing his music.,
Not at all!

That is silly.
No, you are silly!

The CD causes us to hear the music but it is different then hearinh it.
Of course, but there goes your inability to understand the physical CNS again.

Similarly, neurons firing may cause me to see a triangle but neurons firing is not the same thing as a triangle.
And you mental imagery is not the same as the one on paper either. It cuts both ways my friend!

Anyway, good luck with calling Chalmers, Searles and almost every philosopher (except Dennett and the Churchlands). stupid.
No you're just stupid for your hero worship, you should think for yourself instead, assuming you're actually capable, right now it's not looking too good.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Take a basic philosophy class.
been there done that!

You will learn that cause does not equal definition. Shooting a person may cause him to die. However shooting a person is not the definition of death.
Your examples are absurd, as are most of your arguments.

Similarly, neurons firing may cause me to ivisualize a triangle. But the definition of neurons firing is not "a triangle."
You must have a tumor.

Yes,I know that you do not believe in qualia (that we feel pain etc). But please give an argument or refute mine. Simply saying that I am wrong and a mystic is not an argument. It is only name calling.
Your arguments are absurd on their own so they need no refuting.

[raw_thought]

The question is,"how can objective reality (neurons firing etc) create a subjective experience. Materialists simply deny that the subjective exists. That (see Dennett's definition of Qualia that I quoted) subjective experiences dont exist. That I do not feel pain,that I cannot visualize a triangle (because only I can experience the rriangle I am visualizing).Similarly, since you cannot feel my pain,my feeling of pain does not exist. That is silly.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Non- sequiter? Look up non- sequiter.
I know what a non-sequitur is because my professor in logic at university taught me such.

Actually, you are the one that keeps committing a non sequiter. The argument that you keep repeating is that my neurons cause me to visualize a triangle.I DONT DISAGREE WITH THAT!!!!

You're seeing a memory of a triangle, your programming of a triangle, that is all my friend.

[raw_thought]

More, you are wrong. Again no arguments.
Anyway, you can believe that pain does not feel like anything and that it is only C fibers firing. That is delusional.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Your # 2
Saying that neurons firing causes me to see a triangle is not the same as saying that the definition of "neurons firing" is triangle.
Why dont you understand that?

Because that's what you're saying, why don't you understand that?
I'm saying that you are just playing back a recording of a triangle; visualizing your programming of a triangle. Which is all to do with physics.

[raw_thought]

OK, so I cannot visualize a triangle. I disagree.
Since, you still do not have a clue, I will repeat the obvious once again. Yes, my brain most likely was programmed so that I can visualize a triangle. SO WHAT?????
Are you saying that cause =definition????

[raw_thought]

Your # 2
Saying that neurons firing causes me to see a triangle is not the same as saying that the definition of "neurons firing" is triangle.
Why dont you understand that?

Because that's what you're saying, why don't you understand that?
I'm saying that you are just playing back a recording of a triangle; visualizing your programming of a triangle. Which is all to do with physics.

That last point you made HAS NOTHING TO Do with the argument.
It is a non sequiter.
One more time, I am not saying that neurons do not causeme to visualize a triangle. I am saying that neurons firing is not the same as a visualized triangle. The definition of neurons firing is not "triangle ".

[SpheresOfBalance]

#4
Now you are being silly.
So I can visualize a triangle because I have a physical image of a triangle in my brain that I got from experience. I remember what a triangle looks like because there was an axctual physical triangle (that can be seen by others) in my brain???

It's your memory of a physical triangle, that is created physically, by your brains memory banks. Not Qualia!

[raw_thought]

1. There is no objective physical image of my visualized triangle. One cannot see a triangle in my brain. I think that is obvious.
2. Therefore, since the materialist believes that only objective physical reality exists,for him, there is no visualized triangle.
3. I know that I can visualize a triangle.
4. Therefore, the materialist is wrong.

[raw_thought]

#4
Now you are being silly.
So I can visualize a triangle because I have a physical image of a triangle in my brain that I got from experience. I remember what a triangle looks like because there was an axctual physical triangle (that can be seen by others) in my brain???

It's your memory of a physical triangle, that is created physically, by your brains memory banks. Not Qualia!

So what???? Please adress the argument.

[raw_thought]

How many times must I repeat myself? I never said that neurons firing do not cause me to visualize a triangle.

[raw_thought]

1. There is no objective physical image of my visualized triangle. One cannot see a triangle in my brain. I think that is obvious.
2. Therefore, since the materialist believes that only objective physical reality exists,for him, there is no visualized triangle.
3. I know that I can visualize a triangle.
4. Therefore, the materialist is wrong.

It does not matter if my neurons firing causes me to be able to visualize a triangle.

[raw_thought]

The question is,"how can objective reality (neurons firing etc) create a subjective experience. Materialists simply deny that the subjective exists. That (see Dennett's definition of Qualia that I quoted) subjective experiences dont exist. That I do not feel pain,that I cannot visualize a triangle (because only I can experience the rriangle I am visualizing).Similarly, since you cannot feel my pain,my feeling of pain does not exist. That is silly.

[SpheresOfBalance]

The question is,"how can objective reality (neurons firing etc) create a subjective experience. Materialists simply deny that the subjective exists. That (see Dennett's definition of Qualia that I quoted) subjective experiences dont exist. That I do not feel pain,that I cannot visualize a triangle (because only I can experience the rriangle I am visualizing).Similarly, since you cannot feel my pain,my feeling of pain does not exist. That is silly.

No you are silly. The above is nothing more than: If a light bulb, then grass, steel and heaven make a square noble solid if rain squirts pain. Basically that's what you're saying. It's gobbledygook, absurd, ridiculous. You just want to prove your god/find a ghost in the machine. I think like many you're simply getting caught up in the lingo. It confuses you, so you can believe in ghosts.

Individually unique experiences do happen, and then they are gone. There is only ever this moment, no this one, no this one, such that existence is only ever now. Ones subjective view of anything is always a product of many experiences, such that ones view can change. They don't exist in the classic sense. In this moment, you have a visualized triangle in your mind, and in this instant you're killed, where's the triangle? Your body is still here, as is your brain, but it has stopped PHYSICALLY functioning, and in that instant that that your brain ceases to function so the triangle evaporates into thin air, because it never really existed, not in the classic sense. The triangle in your mind was simply a projection from your memory, your programming, that you accessed, it never really existed. At least not like the one that your teacher showed you all those years ago for the first time, on the blackboard. Crap it may be in a box somewhere in a forgotten attic.

Why you want to equate your memory/programming with the word qualia, is beyond me. Been a rebel much?