Why I became a vegetarian...

[Ned]

There are alternatives to all you listed.

Read the rest of the posts and think about it.

It is possible to evolve as a species.

We have already made great progress with science and technology -- we are almost there!

Just a few more steps and we can be proud of ourselves!

This suggest that you are more rabid than first anticipated.

Another name caller!

I am not going to waste pixels on you either -- into my ignore list you go to keep another of your kind company.

[HexHammer]

Another name caller!

I am not going to waste pixels on you either -- into my ignore list you go to keep another of your kind company.

But it's the tragic truth, you are not here to reason, but preach, like those obnoxious evangelists that only see things one sided.

[thedoc]

Another name caller!

I am not going to waste pixels on you either -- into my ignore list you go to keep another of your kind company.

But it's the tragic truth, you are not here to reason, but preach, like those obnoxious evangelists that only see things one sided.

Yes, I don't have much time for them either, I'd much rather talk to people who are reasonable in their beliefs.

[Ned]

Rudeness

I often wonder what’s in it for them:
the rude ones who like to hurt
and offend others
who never did them any harm?

Sometimes I think they must be downtrodden
in their own lives and try to compensate,
hoping to feel bigger by putting us down
as if malice would elevate
their stature in the world
instead of turning them into a clown.

And then there is the hunt of the pack,
when some of them get together
and strive to outdo each other,
see who could be more vicious and vile,
and they don’t notice that while
they are being mean, rude and so very important,
they are unaware, stupid, and shockingly ignorant.

[Hobbes' Choice]

We weren't always vegetarians. I was eating meat till my mid thirties and I have to admit, I was a real ‘carnivore’. I just loved meat, in any form, shape -- I loved the taste, the texture, even the smell of our favorite Hungarian Goulash and "paprikas porkolt".

Then I learned about the unspeakable cruelty to animals in the chicken factories, factory farms, abattoirs, food processing plants, fishing industry, etc.

See link to PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) at: http://www.peta.org/issues

That was just before we moved from Toronto out to our 50 acres in the country, so I suggested to my wife that we raise our own animals for food, in decent, free-ranging environment, without the cruelty associated with commercial meat products.

I asked: "Where do I build the chicken coup?"
She said: "No chicken coup -- I won't eat any living thing I know personally".
I said: "This is hypocrisy -- you let others do your dirty work for you?"
She said: "You are right"
I said: "Then we should not eat meat".
She said: "Fine".
I said: "Fine".

That day we stopped eating meat. That was fourty years ago.

We are not Vegans, we eat milk products and eggs. Our rule is simple: we don't eat anything that visibly objects to being eaten.

This is not a religious (god forbid!) attitude -- it is only an ethical decision, combined with our soft-hearted love of animals, coupled with some logic for the sake of consistency and integrity.

After that day we discovered vegetarian cook books and the countless recipes that are enjoyable, nutritious, even exciting and adventurous. We eat a lot more interestingly than we used to when we were carnivores.

I know that we evolved as omnivores.

Being omnivores implies a choice -- a choice that true carnivores like lions and wolves don't have.

We do.

One of the most frequently heard arguments against vegetarianism is "It is the natural thing to eat meat!".

We find that argument funny: Our entire history, as a human species, was spent fighting against natural things. Like dying of an infection, living in caves, freezing on cold nights, having to roam with the prey animals, hunting and gathering as we used to before agriculture was invented.

We evolved, with our science and technology, creating as unnatural an environment in our big cities as it gets.

There is room for further evolution.

Our science and technology makes it possible today to synthesize meat, in taste almost indistinguishable from what is gained from torturing and killing animals. It could be done on an industrial scale a lot cheaper than what producing meat costs today, if all the costs are considered.

And it would end the unspeakable cruelty we all participate in, as long as we eat meat produced by the meat industry.

Even now you can buy meat-tasting products (bacon, salami, chicken, etc) made from soy beans and I eat a lot of those because I like the taste.

So, there is room for evolving to our full potential as a scientific, technological civilization that does not need the barbaric, inefficient, wasteful survival skills of our primitive past.

Can I ask you a few questions?
Do you eat any of the following?
Eggs, Fish, Cheese, Milk, or Yoghurt?
Are any of your shoes, furniture or clothes made of Leather?
Do you have any products which include wool or angora?

If you answered yes to any of the above then you are being hypocritical.

Now consider the alternatives to leather and wool, and you are taking a course towards environmental disaster.

[Ned]

...another ignorant, unaware and intellectually challenged for my ignore list.

Quite a crowd there already.

I guess they like each other's company -- the more the merrier!

[thedoc]

Can I ask you a few questions?
Do you eat any of the following?
Eggs, Fish, Cheese, Milk, or Yoghurt?
Are any of your shoes, furniture or clothes made of Leather?
Do you have any products which include wool or angora?

If you answered yes to any of the above then you are being hypocritical.
Now consider the alternatives to leather and wool, and you are taking a course towards environmental disaster.

There are only 2 items on your list that involve the killing of animals, fish and leather goods. Leather and real fur are more environmentally friendly than synthetic goods, products of these natural materials will breakdown, but synthetic materials will fill a land fill for a very long time. Wool is a particularly stupid example, as shearing generally does not harm the animal, especially if done at the proper time of year, or if the animal is sheltered in cold weather. The other foods are all the product of living animals that are normally well cared for so as to produce a better product. Only a particularly stupid person would mistreat the animals that provide his lively hood, but I'm guessing that if you kept animals for product you would be one of those people.

[thedoc]

Rudeness

I often wonder what’s in it for them:
the rude ones who like to hurt
and offend others
who never did them any harm?

Sometimes I think they must be downtrodden
in their own lives and try to compensate,
hoping to feel bigger by putting us down
as if malice would elevate
their stature in the world
instead of turning them into a clown.

And then there is the hunt of the pack,
when some of them get together
and strive to outdo each other,
see who could be more vicious and vile,
and they don’t notice that while
they are being mean, rude and so very important,
they are unaware, stupid, and shockingly ignorant.

I hope you are aware that this only applies to human beings, and not animals in the wild.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Can I ask you a few questions?
Do you eat any of the following?
Eggs, Fish, Cheese, Milk, or Yoghurt?
Are any of your shoes, furniture or clothes made of Leather?
Do you have any products which include wool or angora?

If you answered yes to any of the above then you are being hypocritical.
Now consider the alternatives to leather and wool, and you are taking a course towards environmental disaster.

There are only 2 items on your list that involve the killing of animals, fish and leather goods. Leather and real fur are more environmentally friendly than synthetic goods, products of these natural materials will breakdown, but synthetic materials will fill a land fill for a very long time. Wool is a particularly stupid example, as shearing generally does not harm the animal, especially if done at the proper time of year, or if the animal is sheltered in cold weather. The other foods are all the product of living animals that are normally well cared for so as to produce a better product. Only a particularly stupid person would mistreat the animals that provide his lively hood, but I'm guessing that if you kept animals for product you would be one of those people.

To thedoc: I didn't ask you stupid!

It's not stupid top mention wool.
Wool production depends on the sale of meat. If sheep were not used for meat wool would not be economical. As a person using wool you are contribution to killing animals. The same goes for dairy and eggs.

To Ned:
You entire argument is false.
If you pretend to yourself that you can have eggs and milk from animals that are properly cared for then you might as well eat the meat too. What's the difference? None.
If you are pretending to yourself, and stepping up to the moral high ground, tell me this: if your milk herd and free-range chickens are going to live for your benefit, what are you going to do when the cows are too old for milk and the hens stop laying eggs?
Are you REALLY going to let nature do the killing for you? Because there is no more painful way to die than allow nature to take its course of prolonged disease, decay and death. Worse than predation.
Humans can, and do day by day, provide meat animals a well fed and medically supported life and a quick and clean end to their lives. A privilege that no wild animal gets.
A 'natural' wild animal's life is nasty brutish and short. Herbivores die by being ripped limb from limb, usually eaten alive.

Back to thedoc:
There's none as stupid as the ignorant. I've kept animals and killed them for meat. And no I did not mistreat them dick-head.

[Melchior]

Take a look at the videos posted earlier on this thread and watch them for a while.

Then tell me weather it is ethical to treat living beings as garbage?

As I said earlier: "the sickos are those who create, profit from, support and knowingly benefit from the meat industry that treats living creatures as inanimate garbage."

You are irrational and deluded.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

I have noticed that it's ironically the yanks on the internet who are the most against free speech, getting really ugly and personal when anyone dares to disagree with their irrational garbage, yet they are the ones always ranting about their 'land of the free' crap (or 'home of the free'. Whatever).

[Melchior]

...another ignorant, unaware and intellectually challenged for my ignore list.

Quite a crowd there already.

I guess they like each other's company -- the more the merrier!

Has it even occurred to you that you are demented?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

...another ignorant, unaware and intellectually challenged for my ignore list.

Quite a crowd there already.

I guess they like each other's company -- the more the merrier!

Has it even occurred to you that you are demented?

Has it occurred to you that you are?

[Hobbes' Choice]

I have noticed that it's ironically the yanks on the internet who are the most against free speech, getting really ugly and personal when anyone dares to disagree with their irrational garbage, yet they are the ones always ranting about their 'land of the free' crap (or 'home of the free'. Whatever).

They have a quite different version of "freedom". it's what they imposed on Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, etc.
It amounts to pointing a gun and saying you get to vote for who I like.

[duszek]

Ned is right about rude people.
They have bad carma, probably.

As far as veganism is concerned it cannot be natural because of vitamine B 12. Don´t elephants and gorillas need it ?

I suggest that we humans should eat as little meat as possible, preferably from wild animals that need to be decimated in order to preserve the plants from their appetite.
Look what happened in Australia when rabbits were allowed to procreate without limits.