Anger and Frustration Towards God

[Immanuel Can]

Osric:

I never did catch your response to my question...are Buddhist and Hindu type answers to the existence of suffering okay with you, or did you indeed feel that suffering is an unjust thing?

[ReliStuPhD]

<delete>

[Osric]

I think without suffering we cannot become enlightened. We must experience the good and the bad. Maybe we experience suffering so that we may appreciate an end to suffering. Sorry for the late response, my network blocks some of the posts from this forum for some reason. I hope I answered your question. I don't believe suffering is unjust. Maybe each life is an atonement and a chance to make up for mistakes made in past lives. Maybe we are meant to experience each and every facet of suffering spread across multiple lives before we can achieve enlightenment. Maybe the purpose of that is so that we do not judge each other based upon what we have done in our lives.

If we all forgave one another completely and accepted it, then there would be no need for suffering eternally I think, and the cycle would be broken? We are not fully responsible for the suffering we inflict on the creation around us. We cannot control anything in life, free will is but an illusion I think or maybe so miniscule that is doesn't make that much of a difference.

[Immanuel Can]

I think without suffering we cannot become enlightened.. I don't believe suffering is unjust. Maybe each life is an atonement and a chance to make up for mistakes made in past lives.

Well, don't take this question as unkindly intended...it's not. But can I wonder, then, why you seem upset by your own experience of suffering? After all, if this is right, you should be benefiting by being enlightened by it...

And if we make mistakes in past lives, and then have to atone for them, have you ever wondered why we make those "mistakes" in the first place? And what is required for us to "atone"?

Maybe we are meant to experience each and every facet of suffering spread across multiple lives before we can achieve enlightenment. Maybe the purpose of that is so that we do not judge each other based upon what we have done in our lives.

This is another evidence of what confuses me about your view. Why would "judging" be a bad thing? Is not the universe itself continually "judging" us so as to determine karma? And if so, why would our "judging," which would amount to agreeing with the universe, be something we had to stop doing?

If we all forgave one another completely and accepted it, then there would be no need for suffering eternally I think, and the cycle would be broken?

But is it not against the universe, or the Universal Spirit, rather, that we really offend? Or is it only against people that we can offend? But then, what empowers people to impose karma upon us? Are not they themselves in thrall to the laws of karma? Now I'm really confused.

We are not fully responsible for the suffering we inflict on the creation around us. We cannot control anything in life, free will is but an illusion I think or maybe so miniscule that is doesn't make that much of a difference.

If free will is an illusion, then what are we complaining about? What is, simply is. We can do nothing about it...not even change our minds about it...so why complain?

But you say, "we are not fully responsible". Perhaps. But who is holding us "responsible" at all?

I don't want to hold you too rigorously to logic here, because I think you're presenting thoughts and impressions rather than posing rational propositions for debate...but still, we should surely look for some sort of coherence, even in our impressions, no? Otherwise, how are we going to find out anything at all? And I'm seeing some conflicting ideas here.

[Osric]

I guess my schizophrenia makes it hard to be coherent in my expression of thoughts. I will try harder to explain myself and make more sense in the future. What is hard for me is that I thought I was making sense in my own head, lol.

[Immanuel Can]

Ha. We all do that. I was just discussing that with thedoc on another strand.

Schizophrenia, huh? Holy cow. That's tough. Sorry about that.

[Hobbes' Choice]

I guess my schizophrenia makes it hard to be coherent in my expression of thoughts. I will try harder to explain myself and make more sense in the future. What is hard for me is that I thought I was making sense in my own head, lol.

Do you take medication for that.
My brother has schizophrenia and is on Clozipine.
He's now 57, and suffered for nearly 40 years. Earlier drug regimes were not as kind to his brain as Clozipine, and he has suffered from the drugs as much as the condition.

[Osric]

I was on Clozaril for 6 years, now I'm on abilify and welbutrin.

[Hobbes' Choice]

I was on Clozaril for 6 years, now I'm on abilify and welbutrin.

How do you find them? Are they more gentle than Clozaril?
I'm always looking for alternatives to his drug regime.
Was it difficult making the transition?

[Osric]

I have more drive and more of my mind back, but I'm still sleepy all the time. I think it is a lot better than clozaril. Clozaril was slowly killing me in more than one way it felt like. I highly recommend anything besides clozaril. I mean it is so bad it requires weekly blood tests, how good can it be for you. Even though the abilify doesn't actually seem to do anything for me, I pretend it does just so I don't have to go back on clozaril. I still hear voices and think I was violated repeatedly, but I deal with it. But lately the voices have been minimum and the welbutrin seems to give me some energy during the day. Basically the transition led me to be kicked out of my mother's home and into a group home for people with disabilities. Now I'm on a waiting list for subsidized apartments, which hopefully will come soon. It sucks having your freedom taken away by mind altering drugs. So hopefully this transition gets better for me. I confronted my mother when I thought she was actually saying bad things to me and trying to kill me via poison in my water. That led to her calling the cops and them calling the ambulance. I spent a few weeks in the psyche ward where I learned how to cope better with my voices and thoughts, then I was released into a group home where I have been for about 8 months now. I hope this information helps.

[Immanuel Can]

Wow. That's a heck of a weight to be carrying. Sorry, man. The "suffering" thing makes a whole lot of sense now. And the anger and frustration.

[thedoc]

I have more drive and more of my mind back, but I'm still sleepy all the time. I think it is a lot better than clozaril. Clozaril was slowly killing me in more than one way it felt like. I highly recommend anything besides clozaril. I mean it is so bad it requires weekly blood tests, how good can it be for you. Even though the abilify doesn't actually seem to do anything for me, I pretend it does just so I don't have to go back on clozaril. I still hear voices and think I was violated repeatedly, but I deal with it. But lately the voices have been minimum and the welbutrin seems to give me some energy during the day. Basically the transition led me to be kicked out of my mother's home and into a group home for people with disabilities. Now I'm on a waiting list for subsidized apartments, which hopefully will come soon. It sucks having your freedom taken away by mind altering drugs. So hopefully this transition gets better for me. I confronted my mother when I thought she was actually saying bad things to me and trying to kill me via poison in my water. That led to her calling the cops and them calling the ambulance. I spent a few weeks in the psyche ward where I learned how to cope better with my voices and thoughts, then I was released into a group home where I have been for about 8 months now. I hope this information helps.

I suppose that the question now is, do you blame God for your problems, or do you thank God for providing doctors and medication that relieve your suffering?

[Hobbes' Choice]

I have more drive and more of my mind back, but I'm still sleepy all the time. I think it is a lot better than clozaril. Clozaril was slowly killing me in more than one way it felt like. I highly recommend anything besides clozaril. I mean it is so bad it requires weekly blood tests, how good can it be for you. Even though the abilify doesn't actually seem to do anything for me, I pretend it does just so I don't have to go back on clozaril. I still hear voices and think I was violated repeatedly, but I deal with it. But lately the voices have been minimum and the welbutrin seems to give me some energy during the day. Basically the transition led me to be kicked out of my mother's home and into a group home for people with disabilities. Now I'm on a waiting list for subsidized apartments, which hopefully will come soon. It sucks having your freedom taken away by mind altering drugs. So hopefully this transition gets better for me. I confronted my mother when I thought she was actually saying bad things to me and trying to kill me via poison in my water. That led to her calling the cops and them calling the ambulance. I spent a few weeks in the psyche ward where I learned how to cope better with my voices and thoughts, then I was released into a group home where I have been for about 8 months now. I hope this information helps.

I'm sorry to hear about all this. It's all too familiar. My brother has suffered this for 40 years.
Part of you knows that your Mum was not trying to poison you. Those voices in your head, we all have. Except for most of us they we can accept they are just part of your internal dialogue.
I know this is not easy, and keeping the lid on things won't get any easier by what I can say. I just wish you well.

[ReliStuPhD]

I'm sorry to hear about all this. It's all too familiar. My brother has suffered this for 40 years.

As someone who's never had to deal with such a thing, I don't really know what today that doesn't come off as insensitive or trite. That said (and past disagreements aside), I respect you and Osric tremendously for having had to deal with, and survive, something like this. I can't imagine it's ever been anything other than tremendously difficult.

[Hobbes' Choice]

I'm sorry to hear about all this. It's all too familiar. My brother has suffered this for 40 years.

As someone who's never had to deal with such a thing, I don't really know what today that doesn't come off as insensitive or trite. That said (and past disagreements aside), I respect you and Osric tremendously for having had to deal with, and survive, something like this. I can't imagine it's ever been anything other than tremendously difficult.

At times desolate and hopeless.