thedoc wrote:Would you care to summarize, for the ignorant among us.
It's pretty much what I said above. Santa is taken as a creation of the Christian west, so is therefore a sort of pagan innovation. More fundamentalist Muslims in Turkey (and all around the world) want to get rid of pagan innovations. So... graphic of Turkish Muslim punching Santa as a way of showing the right way of going about responding to pagan idols, etc.
thedoc wrote:Would you care to summarize, for the ignorant among us.
It's pretty much what I said above. Santa is taken as a creation of the Christian west, so is therefore a sort of pagan innovation. More fundamentalist Muslims in Turkey (and all around the world) want to get rid of pagan innovations. So... graphic of Turkish Muslim punching Santa as a way of showing the right way of going about responding to pagan idols, etc.
That is really Ironic since much of Christian and Muslim tradition came from the Pagan practices that were co-opted into Christian and Muslim practices. So Turkish Muslims are really cutting of their own roots, or cutting off their nose to spite their face. Just to be clear Santa Claus was a creation of many European traditions, America only borrowed and developed it. Sorry, I read 'Christian west' as America, probably not what you meant.
thedoc wrote:That is really Ironic since much of Christian and Muslim tradition came from the Pagan practices that were co-opted into Christian and Muslim practices. So Turkish Muslims are really cutting of their own roots, or cutting off their nose to spite their face. Just to be clear Santa Claus was a creation of many European traditions, America only borrowed and developed it. Sorry, I read 'Christian west' as America, probably not what you meant.
No problem. And yes, it's ironic. Muslims (well, not all of them) do many things to cut off their noses. Frustrates the hell out of me, but I'm just an observer.
thedoc wrote:In regards to your avatar, I certainly hope you aren't advocating punching the spirit of Christmas, but object to the commercializing of it.
Ha! No, it's taken from a Turkish campaign to get rid of things like Christmas and the like. Santa Claus is an idol, so you should punch him out, in service of the faith.
Thankyou, technically interesting but not much fun, since I don't read that language.
"What do you call a person who knows two languages?
Bi-lingual.
What do you call a person who knows more that two languages?
Multilingual.
What do you call a person who knows only one language?
An American.
When in perpetual war mode like the Americans have been for a number of years now, you have to be prepared to hate anyone regardless of race or language.
The police of the world is becoming punch drunk from fighting too long.
If the world will not start policing itself, then the U.S. should war to take over unstable governments and not just pull their nuts out of the fire.
If they are too stupid or corrupt to rule themselves, then they should be ruled by force of arms.
The problem is that most people don't really understand what a Myth is, they have been brainwashed to believe that a myth is something that is false, because there really are few if any animals that talk and act like people. Myths, parables, and fables, all teach a truth but that truth is not in the details of the story, those details are made up and obviously false, but the truth is in the meaning of the story. I really have no time for the TV show "myth busters" because they perpetuate the idea that a myth is some story that is not true.
Some time ago I heard a line, "All writers are liers, that's why their work is called fiction" but this is not correct, writers often tell the truth wrapped in a story that is fiction, because telling the truth about real people would be upsetting to those real people. This is one reason why Star Trek was so popular, the writers could explore topics about aliens that couldn't be broached about humans.
The bible was instrumental in my own apotheosis and I recommend it highly. One has to have the presence of mind to see that the God portrayed is rather vile and should be rejected. Therein lies the wisdom of the bible.
Regards
DL
Thankyou.
The more I study and consider it, the more I have come to believe that the original stories were nothing like what is written in the current Bible. I would suggest that the stories were enhanced quite a bit to impress the people of the time, who were probably very violent because of the world they were living in. I'm more inclined to accept the stories of the new testament, and take a sign that Jesus taught in parables, made up stories to teach a lesson, not to teach history. My thinking is that if the new testament was primarily parables, why not the old testament mythology as made up stories to teach a lesson.
Now the question is, what do Gnostic's teach that is different form standard Christianity, and where is standard Christianity wrong in light of Gnostic teaching. I'm sure you have elaborated on this before, but I'm going to be lazy and ask you to point me in the direction or post a summary for me. I'm not saying I'm ready to convert or to leave the church I now attend, but I'm always considering other ideas. I have also come to the conclusion that which Church is attended is less important than the individual and their relationship with God.
You have no warrant to accept that any of the stories are anything more than stories. All religions are chock-a-block with impossible tales. Why anyone thinks Christianity is a special case I am puzzled over.
I think every school child ought to be verse in a wide ranging anthropology rather than to idiotic nationalist and exceptionalist history of their own people.
From an anthropological perspective each culture looks parochial, naive and childish.
thedoc wrote:Reading the Bible literally, you are correct. I am not convinced that the stories in the Bible are to be taken literally, and I question how much human elaboration was involved in those stories. When the time is right I will talk to my grandchildren about this.
Same here, though I'm not convinced it'll be the Bible my children are reading.
I would suggest that the Bible at least be on the reading list for your children, then when someone starts talking about it your children will know what they are talking about.
Yeah screw with their heads and indoctrinate them from an early age.
Personally I have more respect for my children than to cram their head with obvious lies from the start, before they are honed their critical skills.
raw_thought wrote:Myths are metaphors and should not be taken literally. They convey wisdom not historical facts.
Ah such obvious wisdom, so lost on our religious brethren here on PN.
Ain't that the truth.
Beware the Truth !
Truth has differentiated regions. One should be particularly wary of anyone who declares that they are defending Truth, with a capital ‘T’, their passion for which may have led them to be casual about the accuracy of specific, small scale, multiple truths which could be checked and contested. Such checking and Socratic quibbling can all too easily be treated as a trivial matter when the Juggernaut of Truth is busily rolling along, crushing its alleged opponents into the dust.
