is evolution shaped by death

[ianrust]

It isn't. When a gene activates or deactivates according to behavior, that is an interactive relationship. Pick the word apart if you feel the need, waste your time.

As I suspected you don't understand evolution.

You are born and die with the same genome. Evolution works on the variable survival of individuals: those that have viable progeny against those that fail to reproduce.
Epigenetics may have a small role to play, but nothing uncovered by science changes the fact that nothing we do during our lives can change the genome, though some genes might get switched on or off (in a limited way), evolution runs on Natural Selection.

Epigenetics is an emerging field which will continue to expand. Natural selection is not limited to a mechanical battle of genomes, epigenetics influences survival. Your attempts to limit the significance of epigenetics will be buried by history.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Eating bananas is directly related to evolution. Read:
http://necsi.edu/projects/evolution/co- ... dator.html

Clearly you need to investigate the word "DIRECTLY".

No, you can extrapolate it. I'm not interested in picking apart your jargon for you. You do need to investigate "post modernism", though - that's a philosophy about language. THanks, bye.

I've forgotten more post-modernist theory than you will ever know. I done the Foucault, Derrida, Merleau-Ponty, Baudrillard, Bourdieu, Barthes... But I see precious little evidence that you understand any of it in your posts.

[Hobbes' Choice]

It isn't. When a gene activates or deactivates according to behavior, that is an interactive relationship. Pick the word apart if you feel the need, waste your time.

As I suspected you don't understand evolution.

You are born and die with the same genome. Evolution works on the variable survival of individuals: those that have viable progeny against those that fail to reproduce.
Epigenetics may have a small role to play, but nothing uncovered by science changes the fact that nothing we do during our lives can change the genome, though some genes might get switched on or off (in a limited way), evolution runs on Natural Selection.

Epigenetics is an emerging field which will continue to expand. Natural selection is not limited to a mechanical battle of genomes, epigenetics influences survival. Your attempts to limit the significance of epigenetics will be buried by history.

Whereof we cannot speak we must remain silent. When you can fully understand natural selection, come back and we'll talk.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Epigenetics 101, from Wiki

In genetics, epigenetics is the study of cellular and physiological trait variations that are not caused by changes in the DNA sequence; epigenetics describes the study of dynamic alterations in the transcriptional potential of a cell. These alterations may or may not be heritable, although the use of the term epigenetic to describe processes that are not heritable is controversial.[1] Unlike genetics based on changes to the DNA sequence (the genotype), the changes in gene expression or cellular phenotype of epigenetics have other causes, thus use of the term epi- (Greek: επί- over, outside of, around) -genetics.[2][3]

The heritability of such changes has to be included in changes to the gametes for a genome DNA change to be effected. Whilst the potential to alter the phenotype might be significant to the resultant behaviour of the organism, there is nothing to say that the change given by the epigenetic process cannot simply be switched back in the subsequent generation. Thus the essential base-genome remains unaltered by the process, but as usual still has to run the hurdle of natural selection for real evolution to be the result.

[ianrust]

Clearly you need to investigate the word "DIRECTLY".

No, you can extrapolate it. I'm not interested in picking apart your jargon for you. You do need to investigate "post modernism", though - that's a philosophy about language. THanks, bye.

I've forgotten more post-modernist theory than you will ever know. I done the Foucault, Derrida, Merleau-Ponty, Baudrillard, Bourdieu, Barthes... But I see precious little evidence that you understand any of it in your posts.

You are saying nothing. This is a pissing contest. Extrapolate the meaning yourself, or don't and leave.

[ianrust]

Epigenetics 101, from Wiki

In genetics, epigenetics is the study of cellular and physiological trait variations that are not caused by changes in the DNA sequence; epigenetics describes the study of dynamic alterations in the transcriptional potential of a cell. These alterations may or may not be heritable, although the use of the term epigenetic to describe processes that are not heritable is controversial.[1] Unlike genetics based on changes to the DNA sequence (the genotype), the changes in gene expression or cellular phenotype of epigenetics have other causes, thus use of the term epi- (Greek: επί- over, outside of, around) -genetics.[2][3]

The heritability of such changes has to be included in changes to the gametes for a genome DNA change to be effected. Whilst the potential to alter the phenotype might be significant to the resultant behaviour of the organism, there is nothing to say that the change given by the epigenetic process cannot simply be switched back in the subsequent generation. Thus the essential base-genome remains unaltered by the process, but as usual still has to run the hurdle of natural selection for real evolution to be the result.

The changes in how cells transcribe are not random, they're adaptations to the cells environment, which inevitably trace back to the organisms behaviors. The changes are probably inherited, and they are also adaptive. THe base genome of the organism is unaltered, but if changes in the cells transcription process deactivate certain genes, it will alter the reproductive potential of the organism. In other words, epigenetic changes effect the survival reproductive value of the organism, and are influenced by behavior.
Changes in survival reproductive value translate into alterations of genomes over time.
Epigenetics alters the evolutionary course of the genome.
"Epigenetics changes the genome.".
Now, stop.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Epigenetics 101, from Wiki

In genetics, epigenetics is the study of cellular and physiological trait variations that are not caused by changes in the DNA sequence; epigenetics describes the study of dynamic alterations in the transcriptional potential of a cell. These alterations may or may not be heritable, although the use of the term epigenetic to describe processes that are not heritable is controversial.[1] Unlike genetics based on changes to the DNA sequence (the genotype), the changes in gene expression or cellular phenotype of epigenetics have other causes, thus use of the term epi- (Greek: επί- over, outside of, around) -genetics.[2][3]

The heritability of such changes has to be included in changes to the gametes for a genome DNA change to be effected. Whilst the potential to alter the phenotype might be significant to the resultant behaviour of the organism, there is nothing to say that the change given by the epigenetic process cannot simply be switched back in the subsequent generation. Thus the essential base-genome remains unaltered by the process, but as usual still has to run the hurdle of natural selection for real evolution to be the result.

The changes in how cells transcribe are not random, they're adaptations to the cells environment, which inevitably trace back to the organisms behaviors. The changes are probably inherited, and they are also adaptive. THe base genome of the organism is unaltered, but if changes in the cells transcription process deactivate certain genes, it will alter the reproductive potential of the organism. In other words, epigenetic changes effect the survival reproductive value of the organism, and are influenced by behavior.
Changes in survival reproductive value translate into alterations of genomes over time.
Epigenetics alters the evolution of the genome.
Now, stop.

You are speaking as if somehow the organism knows what kind of change is required, and has a mechanism to specifically change key genes on order to maximise survival. This is totally anathema to all evolutionary theory since Lamarck was refuted, buy Darwin's successors.
For this to be the case, the changes would need some kind of mechanism??? Presumably, in your case, that mechanism is God?

[ianrust]

All that evolutionary theory is going to change, due to epigenetics. I call it God, yes. If you can't handle that, call it a will to survive / reproduce contrasted with a will to die; mix in some free will and you have an approximation, still not entirely adequate. There is a higher awareness which all organisms possess; yet often delve into their lower natures. Right now, for example, I need a job; but I enjoy blabbering here with you. If I got a job, that would increase my survival-reproductive value; it would also activate / deactivate certain genes through epigenetics. I also have an autoimmune disease. If I stop spending my days surfing cyberspace and masturbating, that will cause epigenetic changes which will deactivate my disease processes.

[Hobbes' Choice]

All that evolutionary theory is going to change, due to epigenetics. I call it God, yess.

WOW - we have a person that knows the future.

Ohhhhhhh spooooky!!!!

[ianrust]

All that evolutionary theory is going to change, due to epigenetics. I call it God, yess.

WOW - we have a person that knows the future.

Ohhhhhhh spooooky!!!!

The argument stands and is done with. Now, I am tired of you - go away.

[Hobbes' Choice]

All that evolutionary theory is going to change, due to epigenetics. I call it God, yess.

WOW - we have a person that knows the future.

Ohhhhhhh spooooky!!!!

The argument stands and is done with. Now, I am tired of you - go away.

You have no argument.
Your attempts at an argument seem to rely on you knowing what is going to happen in the future, and knowing the mind of god.
I suggest you go away and think about it.

[ianrust]

If you want to continue this, then respond to what I said. Otherwise, shut up.

[Hobbes' Choice]

If you want to continue this, then respond to what I said. Otherwise, shut up.

Now, now, don't be rude!!!
I responded exactly to your fantastic suggestion.
You suggested that evolution is guided by god. And you implied that he uses epigenetics to guide evolution.
On any level this is risible. If you want to be taken more seriously then attend to the thread, and do not bring in your fantastic religious fantasies.

[ianrust]

Go ahead, feel free to respond to what I said. There is nothing preventing you from quoting my argument and formulating a response, if you disagree.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Go ahead, feel free to respond to what I said. There is nothing preventing you from quoting my argument and formulating a response, if you disagree.

You need to realise that there is a significant difference between an "argument" , and an unfounded assertion.

Think about it!

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.