I would be interested to hear others thoughts on this quote from Nietzsche

[Buddhist guy]

Hi,
I would love to hear others interpretations of Nietzsche's famous quote

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

Perhaps this is an obvious interpretation but I take it to mean "We become what we fear". Or it could be seen as a variation on "Do unto others" with a more "dark side" slant as in, "If we see others as monsters we will become the monster in the eyes of those others". The "abyss" could be viewed as "If we believe in meaninglessness, we will live/become that meaninglessness.(The irony being that in a sense life is meaningless and it precisely that lack of intrinsic meaning which allows us to create and decide our own meaning and purpose for our lives. If life really was intrinsically "meaningful" we would be slaves to this "one and true meaning". No thank you very much )

What are others thoughts on this?

[Melchior]

Where is this taken from?

[Dalek Prime]

Presumably a book. *Hehe*

[Melchior]

I found it by searching on google.

Jenseits von Gut und Böse [Beyond Good and Evil] (1886)

Aphorism 146
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.

I emended the translation a little:
If you fight with monsters you should take care lest you become a monster yourself. And when you stare into an abyss long enough, the abyss will stare back at you.

Nietzsche likes to play with words and ideas. I would not worry too much about 'what he means'.

[bergie15]

I think he meant that if we surround ourselves with bad or evil, we will become evil.

[Melchior]

I think he meant that if we surround ourselves with bad or evil, we will become evil.

No, that's not what it means. The verb kämpfen means to fight, not to surround. And Ungeheuer are 'monsters' not necessarily evil-doers. The adjective ungeheuer means 'enormous'.

[Buddhist guy]

Thanks guys!

I'm not particularly bothered by what Nietzsche meant, I was just wanting to share what it means to me and I was curious about other interpretations. Presumably Nietzsche never clarified. Obscure sod

[Melchior]

Thanks guys!

I'm not particularly bothered by what Nietzsche meant, I was just wanting to share what it means to me and I was curious about other interpretations. Presumably Nietzsche never clarified. Obscure sod

No shit.

[Impenitent]

context is everything

beyond good and evil...

what was the measure of good and evil?

Christianity...

-Imp

[Buddhist guy]

Hi,
Fair point impenitent. So would you see the quote as a dig at the history of Christian morality through Nietzsche's eyes? I must admit that does make sense. I still like my own interpretation though

[van Keister]

The abyss is a good symbol for nihilism and despair. The Ubermensch will have not part of it and must rise above....

[DesolationRow]

The abyss is a good symbol for nihilism and despair.

I think this is right. The "monster" you're fighting could be despair as well. Fighting against it is futile, you have to transcend it. Theists can transcend it through faith. Nietzsche would reject that idea, but say that it can be transcended through will to power and self-mastery.

[ianrust]

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

A black, empty space in the back of your mind. It's a place shut away from the living world. People often go into the abyss to relive past experience, compulsively recycle thoughts, philosophize, delve into daydreams; especially sexual dreams. This delving into the black world is a refusal to grow and thrive as an adult in the real world. The real world seems insurmountable; the problems inside ones head are as heavy; somehow it seems by solving them, life problems will resolve. The wellspring of revelations and fantasies in empty space is eternally vast. So idle philosophizing perpetually transforms the individual. People desire to get what they want at all costs, so they will go into this black world to obtain it. Every time a person slips back into this world, they're shutting out real life, and potential for prosperity. So it is important for survival to pull oneself out of the abyss (philosophers are especially prone to slipping into it). It is not meaningful or worthwhile to exist perpetually in a dark pit...
The real world is actually a very nice place, worth connecting to. But the fear many philosophers run into is, when reconnecting, they begin to realize all their thoughts were worthless; god knows the thoughts of the wise, and that they are foolishness. So all philosophy seems like an idle waste of time. And it can be difficult to confront that one has spent their life doing ... nothing. But, ultimate, when one does reconnect, as thoughts dissolve, its completely satisfying and meaningful.

[Buddhist guy]

Seems fair

[duszek]

A monster could be someone who is a notorious lier and who cheats and is dishonest all the time. A conman who knows how to pull strings and how to gossip in a strategic way. And if he is caught then he claims that there was a "misunderstanding" or that he "does not remember anything" etc.

How to fight against such a person ?

You have to use his tricks up to a point and so you become a little like him in the process.