thedoc wrote:There is a translation of Satan that means "self" so that in effect God was talking to himself and there was no-one else there. In that interpretation it is God who did everything and then didn't try to justify God's action to Job, just left it that God was superior and could do whatever God wanted.
Could you expound on this translation a bit? I'm willing to bet it's tied to a human context rather than a divine one, but I'd be interested to see it, especially if it's taken to be God arguing with "him"self.
I would suggest that everything in the Bible, whether of Divine origin or not, is filtered through a human context. After all don't we assume that it was people who actually wrote the Bible. I don't recall anyone claiming that the book was dropped whole from Heaven.
"Job, just left it that God was superior and could do whatever God wanted."
From his POV, it ends there. God or nature.
For us, it is left to judge God.
For me, when God whines like a baby and says the Satan , (that big Meany), "moved me to destroy without cause", --- that gave me to decide with the verdict below. Guilty.
thedoc wrote:There is a translation of Satan that means "self" so that in effect God was talking to himself and there was no-one else there. In that interpretation it is God who did everything and then didn't try to justify God's action to Job, just left it that God was superior and could do whatever God wanted.
Could you expound on this translation a bit? I'm willing to bet it's tied to a human context rather than a divine one, but I'd be interested to see it, especially if it's taken to be God arguing with "him"self.
I would suggest that everything in the Bible, whether of Divine origin or not, is filtered through a human context. After all don't we assume that it was people who actually wrote the Bible. I don't recall anyone claiming that the book was dropped whole from Heaven.
Sorry. I wasn't clear about what I meant. I meant something more along the lines of "satan = self" being translated with respect to humans. Perhaps something like "Your ego/self is your own Satan." I wasn't speaking of translating scripture through the lens of human experience, though I certainly agree that happens. Really, I'm just after where you found that, and I was surmising that it probably applied to humans (e.g. ego) but not deities.
ReliStuPhD wrote:
Could you expound on this translation a bit? I'm willing to bet it's tied to a human context rather than a divine one, but I'd be interested to see it, especially if it's taken to be God arguing with "him"self.
I would suggest that everything in the Bible, whether of Divine origin or not, is filtered through a human context. After all don't we assume that it was people who actually wrote the Bible. I don't recall anyone claiming that the book was dropped whole from Heaven.
Sorry. I wasn't clear about what I meant. I meant something more along the lines of "satan = self" being translated with respect to humans. Perhaps something like "Your ego/self is your own Satan." I wasn't speaking of translating scripture through the lens of human experience, though I certainly agree that happens. Really, I'm just after where you found that, and I was surmising that it probably applied to humans (e.g. ego) but not deities.
As I said in my previous post I'll have to ask my pastor for a more detailed account of that translation, however I did not get the impression that it referred only to people, but also referred to God, or other Heavenly beings.
thedoc wrote:As I said in my previous post I'll have to ask my pastor for a more detailed account of that translation, however I did not get the impression that it referred only to people, but also referred to God, or other Heavenly beings.
Thanks. I'll be interested to hear back (but no rush).
When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.
Greatest I am wrote:If Satan is within the self, then God would also be within the self.
Right?
Only if it were true, but insofar as your "B" is neither logically nor metaphysically entailed in your "A," it is as yet unclear whether you're "right." In fact, your "B" may be both logically and metaphysically impossible if we grant that God is the non-contingent ground of being.
Greatest I am wrote:If Satan is within the self, then God would also be within the self.
Right?
Or is it only the evil we internalise and not the good?
I think both as Gnostic Christians see all spiritual forces as within us. The good, the bad and the ugly.
The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded
This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y
When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.
Regards
DL
There is an alternate interpretation of Satan that I have heard, that rather than being God's enemy, Satan was sent by God to tempt and test humans into disbelief, there-by being part of the sorting process, sorting the wheat from the chaff. So Satan's job was an assignment rather than a punishment.
Greatest I am wrote:If Satan is within the self, then God would also be within the self.
Right?
Only if it were true, but insofar as your "B" is neither logically nor metaphysically entailed in your "A," it is as yet unclear whether you're "right." In fact, your "B" may be both logically and metaphysically impossible if we grant that God is the non-contingent ground of being.
My Franglais is not up to interpreting your last.
I write backward to normal English and have to rearrange things in my mind to some extent when reading. Your word have baffled my French brains.
Greatest I am wrote:If Satan is within the self, then God would also be within the self.
Right?
Or is it only the evil we internalise and not the good?
I think both as Gnostic Christians see all spiritual forces as within us. The good, the bad and the ugly.
The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded
This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y
When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.
Regards
DL
There is an alternate interpretation of Satan that I have heard, that rather than being God's enemy, Satan was sent by God to tempt and test humans into disbelief, there-by being part of the sorting process, sorting the wheat from the chaff. So Satan's job was an assignment rather than a punishment.
That would make more sense than what Christians have interpreted from the Jewish myths. The Jews agree with you.
The thing is, if God created us in the first place, he would know our natures and whether or not we would fail the test so those tests are redundant and not requited.
That would mean that we are just a make work project for God and Satan. They must be some bored up in heaven.
thedoc wrote:As I said in my previous post I'll have to ask my pastor for a more detailed account of that translation, however I did not get the impression that it referred only to people, but also referred to God, or other Heavenly beings.
Thanks. I'll be interested to hear back (but no rush).
Just spoke to my pastor and she has an 8 page paper that was written on the subject by one of her Seminary professors. I'll be getting it tonight and I read it and try to condense it for you. Then you can ask for as many more details as you like, unless I can find it posted on line, then I'll post the link.
thedoc wrote:As I said in my previous post I'll have to ask my pastor for a more detailed account of that translation, however I did not get the impression that it referred only to people, but also referred to God, or other Heavenly beings.
Thanks. I'll be interested to hear back (but no rush).
Just spoke to my pastor and she has an 8 page paper that was written on the subject by one of her Seminary professors. I'll be getting it tonight and I read it and try to condense it for you. Then you can ask for as many more details as you like, unless I can find it posted on line, then I'll post the link.
Greatest I am wrote:If Satan is within the self, then God would also be within the self.
Right?
Only if it were true, but insofar as your "B" is neither logically nor metaphysically entailed in your "A," it is as yet unclear whether you're "right." In fact, your "B" may be both logically and metaphysically impossible if we grant that God is the non-contingent ground of being.
My Franglais is not up to interpreting your last.
I write backward to normal English and have to rearrange things in my mind to some extent when reading. Your word have baffled my French brains.
Did you say no to my "Right", or yes?
Apologies, DL. What I was saying was "perhaps." Personally, I would say no, but I was trying to show that the argument itself does not require that, because "Satan is within the self," then "God would also be within the self." There is no logical or metaphysical entailment between the two. In fact, it's a somewhat common belief that the self is "Satan" and God is external and can rescue the self. (Loosely stated)
It does and I agree that Satan and God can only be found in the self.
That is common Gnosis/knowledge to a Gnostic Christian. That is why I say.
The only God fit to rule men and women is a man or a woman. That is how it has always been and all we have ever had. Who but a man or woman can express the will of God?
There have always only been men and women of good hearts able to express God’s real will.
Like Jesus and his wife who preached to seek God perpetually, even after finding a bit of God or Goddess within the self. We are to perpetually raise the bar of excellence for ourselves, our God.
ReliStuPhD wrote:
Thanks. I'll be interested to hear back (but no rush).
Just spoke to my pastor and she has an 8 page paper that was written on the subject by one of her Seminary professors. I'll be getting it tonight and I read it and try to condense it for you. Then you can ask for as many more details as you like, unless I can find it posted on line, then I'll post the link.
I appreciate it. Thanks.
We were also discussing "turning the other cheek" and some other practices and beliefs that were peculiar to the time. The ancient people thought a lot differently about some things than people do now.
