Hume’s Miracles

[Philosophy Now]

Paul Warwick considers Hume’s argument against testimony concerning miracles.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/83/Humes_Miracles

[marjoram_blues]

Do you believe in miracles?
What is your definition of a 'miracle'?

[ or if you're not 'in' to definitions, then what do you think of when you hear the word 'miracle'? As a noun, a adjective...any personal examples? ]

Some perspectives on miracles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle

I'm inclined to follow the conclusion of the article's author.

I have not seen anyone raised from the dead, nor have I seen the Sun dance in the sky. On the other hand, I do not wish to seem rude by impugning the integrity of people who do claim to have witnessed such things. I suspect that such events will be fondly remembered as highlights of their lives. Therefore, with Hume, I take the polite course, and can only comment that, not having seen it for myself, I will always have better reasons for not believing such reports than for believing them.

© Paul Warwick 2011

Also, perhaps...

From wiki:

Thomas Paine, one of the Founding Fathers of the American Revolution, wrote “All the tales of miracles, with which the Old and New Testament are filled, are fit only for impostors to preach and fools to believe”.[36]

Biologist Richard Dawkins has criticised the belief in miracles as a subversion of Occam's Razor.[44]

But I really don't know.

Thoughts, anyone?

[marjoram_blues]

Well, I know what Greylorn thinks:

We are all required to accept the reality of at least one Absolute Miracle. It is that anything whatsoever exists.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15094&start=75
Sun April 5, 04.54

GL's definition:

the term Absolute Miracle is an event, state of being, or combination thereof that cannot possibly be explained, not even by a hypothetical omniscient God. Christ clearly knew the paranormal technology needed to perform actions seen by men as miraculous, but since he knew how to perform them, they were no more miraculous than an anthropologist visiting primitive tribes with a Zippo in hand-- or even better, an old handgun.

So, are most miracles then, Relative Miracles?

[marjoram_blues]

A quick early morning thought...

I was inspired to search the PN archives re 'miracles' after reading the GL/IC discussion (link above).
Searching for alternative views, particularly philosophical. Also. from the perspective of what GL terms a 'NOTA' - a none of the above. The implications of not believing in a Creator/creators. Which is not the same as not considering the idea of such a concept/being which can be done by anyone. if they so wish.

I have yet to look through this:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/miracles/

There's a lot there to get through and I'm not sure it's even worth it.
So far, I'm thinking - the implications of being a NOTA is that one doesn't need to believe in miracles. However, any religious belief does seem to require this.

I'd love to hear other views on this - is it even worth talking about?

[marjoram_blues]

Definition of miracle in English:

noun
1An extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency: the miracle of rising from the grave

1.1A remarkable event or development that brings very welcome consequences: it was a miracle that more people hadn’t been killed; industries at the heart of the economic miracle

1.2An exceptional product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something: a machine which was a miracle of design [as modifier]: a miracle drug

Middle English: via Old French from Latin miraculum 'object of wonder', from mirari 'to wonder', from mirus 'wonderful'
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... sh/miracle

Why would people believe in a miracle as described in definition 1?
Why would people explain/describe existence, the creation of the universe in such terms?

I can accept the other definitions and usage of the word 'miracle' - it's a wonder - but see no need at all for a Creator or God coming into the equation. We can wonder about the wonders of life but doesn't that need an opposite term to be totally understood?
For instance, there would be no 'miracle' of surviving the tragedy of an ISIS massacre without the evil act itself. There would be no 'miracle' of creation if there wasn't an idea of a chaotic nothingness...

[artisticsolution]

My definition of a miracle is something of wonder that will never have an explanation. It is hard for me to believe in miracles for this reason. I believe there is an answer for everything that happens even if we can't understand it yet or ever.

A miracle performed by God (if there is a God) is not a miracle to me...because God knows how to do it. Maybe a miracle might be if God was watching in awe. But then, that wouldn't necessarily mean it was a miracle....just that it was of unknown origin.

If I am duped by my existence (which by all account is a miracle since I don't know what made my heart start beating or my mind to start thinking), I see no cause for alarm. I am certain there are things beyond my control in what I consider reality and so it doesn't bother me even if I am like the Turkey in the story. I just have always assumed that I was the turkey in the story, anyway. lol

I have to tell you though...I do find it amusing that there are those who try very hard to out smart existence, always on the look out to somehow avoid being duped by it...AS IF! Ha! By all means, while away the hours trying to figure existence out...that's cool. Just don't waste time being afraid of it...like it's going to get the best of you ('you' in general) if you let your guard down for a second or something. It already had you...that dupe has sailed.

[David Handeye]

When I will know and see aliens landing on the Earth, then I will stop believing in miracles.

[marjoram_blues]

When I will know and see aliens landing on the Earth, then I will stop believing in miracles.

Really? Why would you stop?
I'll start believing in miracles, if I ever reach Rome

[marjoram_blues]

My definition of a miracle is something of wonder that will never have an explanation. It is hard for me to believe in miracles for this reason. I believe there is an answer for everything that happens even if we can't understand it yet or ever.

A miracle performed by God (if there is a God) is not a miracle to me...because God knows how to do it. Maybe a miracle might be if God was watching in awe. But then, that wouldn't necessarily mean it was a miracle....just that it was of unknown origin.

If I am duped by my existence (which by all account is a miracle since I don't know what made my heart start beating or my mind to start thinking), I see no cause for alarm. I am certain there are things beyond my control in what I consider reality and so it doesn't bother me even if I am like the Turkey in the story. I just have always assumed that I was the turkey in the story, anyway. lol

Thanks, AS, for your response - I was getting used to talking to myself (and I don't need to come on here to do that )
Sounds like we could both be awe-ful turkeys

[David Handeye]

When I will know and see aliens landing on the Earth, then I will stop believing in miracles.

Really? Why would you stop?
I'll start believing in miracles, if I ever reach Rome

Ciao Marjoram,
Where are you from? Rome isn't so far from everywhere, I guess. Roma caput mundi.
If you ever, I'll be glad to welcome you a Roma

[marjoram_blues]

Hmm...perhaps I will PM you...
Be warned...I'm an alien...

[David Handeye]

Hmm...perhaps I will PM you...
Be warned...I'm an alien...

oh no, you aren't. according to Warwick, and to you, I should always have better reasons for not believing such reports than for believing them.