Faith

[Greatest I am]

The crucifixion was a show put on by God because mankind was incapable of understanding the sin, repentance, forgiveness and reconciliation thing that had been offered. This gave mankind something to believe in, the book of Job illustrates man's inability to get past the sin/punishment mentality, so God tried to give mankind something they could understand. The failing here is that God constantly over estimates man's ability to comprehend and understand the lessons being taught. God gave man a brain to think with and man constantly fails to use it.

I disagree. Those who use their brains and intelligence will discard religion and those numbers are the fastest growing demographic.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

DL:

Your anger against me is misplaced. I see your arguments, and I know them very well. I have read the sources that have led you to your position. I think they're erroneous. The bottom line: I just don't agree with you. That is all. No hard feelings, as we do not know each other beyond this disembodied voice in cyberspace.

However, regarding what we say against God, the Scriptures you purport to respect say this: "...every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment." (Jesus Christ, Matthew 12: 36)

You may not be willing to hear that from me, but it isn't to me your accounting shall be made.

We shall leave it there, then.

Get over yourself.


Only fools believe in a judgement day.

The only salvation a Gnostic Christian will want or need is to be saved from stupidity and immorality by Gnosis.

Regards
DL

[Immanuel Can]

Only fools believe in a judgement day.

Au contraire: "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God." (Psalm 14:1)

[Greatest I am]

Only fools believe in a judgement day.

Au contraire: "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God." (Psalm 14:1)

Who said there was no God?

Not I.

But if you believe in a miracle working absentee genocidal son murderer then by all means be a fool.

Regards
DL

[raw_thought]

I have never understood why faith is a virtue. Suppose I am a child and live with my brother (who is also a child). We are the only people that live in the house. Everyday, criminals break into our house,beat us up and take our stuff. My brother says that I must have faith that our father is alive and in the attic. He also says that he is silent and never leaves his room for our own good. Unfortunately, we do not know the reason. However we must have faith that there is a reason. Decades go by. One day Dad leaves the room and says to my brother, "both of you are good boys. However, your brother never believed in me. Therefore he will be tortured for eternity."
Is Dad insane? Is God insane?

I have enjoyed the many posts. However, we have drifted from the topic.
To be fair, I am not talking about faith in general. Specifically, I am referring to conventional Christianity's concept of faith and how it relates to salvation.

[ReliStuPhD]

I have never understood why faith is a virtue. Suppose I am a child and live with my brother (who is also a child). We are the only people that live in the house. Everyday, criminals break into our house,beat us up and take our stuff. My brother says that I must have faith that our father is alive and in the attic. He also says that he is silent and never leaves his room for our own good. Unfortunately, we do not know the reason. However we must have faith that there is a reason. Decades go by. One day Dad leaves the room and says to my brother, "both of you are good boys. However, your brother never believed in me. Therefore he will be tortured for eternity."
Is Dad insane? Is God insane?

I have enjoyed the many posts. However, we have drifted from the topic.
To be fair, I am not talking about faith in general. Specifically, I am referring to conventional Christianity's concept of faith and how it relates to salvation.

Out of curiosity, if we were to alter your scenario so that your brother had an e-mail signed "Dad" that said "If you don't have faith that I'm in the attic, when I one day come down, you'll be tortured for all eternity," how might it change things? (And let's not take this as me agreeing with the Christian concept of punishment. Still, to be fair, Christians (the brother) are showing us an e-mail they claim to be authentic, but that we discount as flawed/fiction/a forgery.)

[raw_thought]

Sorry,I tool so long to respond. I was dealing with a troll. I know! I should just ignore them. But I cannot help standing up to a bully.
I suppose that e mail is an analogy to the Bible. Suppose, I am convinced that that e mail is a trick,possibly made by the burglars. Do I deserve to be punished for not believing that it is an e mail sent by dad from the attic?

[thedoc]

To be honest, I find all this to be quite amusing. Please continue.

[ReliStuPhD]

I suppose that e mail is an analogy to the Bible. Suppose, I am convinced that that e mail is a trick,possibly made by the burglars. Do I deserve to be punished for not believing that it is an e mail sent by dad from the attic?

Right, that's the $64,000 question, isn't it? It seems to me that if you're old enough to make such a decision rationally, and the letter itself carries a warning concerning said punishment, your decision to ignore the letter surely carries with it an implicit admission that if you're wrong, you know that you'll bear the consequences. That is to say, you've made a choice with (I assume) full knowledge of the implications if you're wrong.

For my part, I think you've got a strong point with the 'eternal punishment for a lifetime of sin' angle. Though I'm not a Christian, when I was, I didn't hold to this particular view, so I'm inclined to side with you. If the punishment for ignoring your Dad's e-mail is more in keeping with the offense, it's less clear to me that you don't deserve the punishment.

[raw_thought]

Imannuel can,
To rely on scripture as a proof of God's existence is circular reasong.
1. God exists because the Bible says so.
2. The Bible is true because it was inspired by God. That presupposes that God exists.
How do you explain the hundreds of self contradictions in the Bible?
When someone claims A and not A I know that he has to be wrong. Either A is wrong, or not A is wrong.