How Should Society Be Organised?

[henry quirk]

"it's sufficient"

Not to me it isn't.

Spike sez: 'the individual and society constitute a symbiotic relationship'

I know what 'the individual' is.

But, in the context of his statement, what does Spike mean by 'society'?

I want his definition.

[HexHammer]

"it's sufficient"

Not to me it isn't.

Spike sez: 'the individual and society constitute a symbiotic relationship'

I know what 'the individual' is.

But, in the context of his statement, what does Spike mean by 'society'?

I want his definition.

Irrelevant! Go chase some rainbows old man!

[henry quirk]

Hex, what makes you think I give a flip if you think it's relevant?

Done with you...waitin' on Spike.

[spike]

quirk knows what society is. He's just being a devil's advocate. It a conglomerate of individuals. It is a sum greater than its parts. It's a complementarity.

[henry quirk]

"It a conglomerate of individuals."

Yes.

"It is a sum greater than its parts."

No, not in my view.

[HexHammer]

Hex, what makes you think I give a flip if you think it's relevant?

Done with you...waitin' on Spike.

I know you don't comprehend that concept, why you stubbornly stands here and yells for completely irrelevant things, like you have demonstrated before.

[henry quirk]

Hex,

"I know you don't comprehend that concept (of society)"

And I know you don't understand the concept of 'done with you'.

*shrug*

#

Spike,

If the 'parts' are the individuals who comprise society, then what's the 'sum' that's greater?

[spike]

quirk,

You sound like Margaret Thatcher. She didn't believe society existed.

Society is an organism, like an individual, only bigger. It makes individualism possible. It facilitates individualism. Think of society as the human body and individuals as its genes. While genes are independent agents like individuals they are also dependent on their host, the human body or society. (I am thinking of Darwkin's self gene. They act like 'selfish' individuals who think they are the center of things.)

What is incredible is that the individual can function so freely in our society, as though it isn't there. But even though we may be blind to it, society affords us the security, stability, order and the recognition we need and crave. Those needs and craving are satisfied through the networks society creates and makes possible.

The Trust we develop and share with others is not something that just develops and flows between individuals. For Trust to have real significance and impact it has to occur in larger measures, which can only happen in the larger organism/context called society.

[HexHammer]

Hex,

"I know you don't comprehend that concept (of society)"

And I know you don't understand the concept of 'done with you'.

No, I never suggest that u don't understand the concept of society, but the concept of relevance!

[henry quirk]

Spike,

"Society is an organism"

I understand this to be the communitarian view.

You're welcome to it and are free to expend yourself as you like in service to this ‘organism’.

Being sumthin' other than communitarian, my view, from up-thread, 'society' is nuthin' more than individuals in (relatively) close quarters who refrain from butchering one another; 'society' is individuals 'transacting' (economically and culturally) within the context of 'mind your own business and keep your hands to yourself (or die)'.

#

Hex,

"u don't understand...the concept of relevance!"

And you (still) don't understand the concept of 'done with you'.

[HexHammer]

"u don't understand...the concept of relevance!"

And you (still) don't understand the concept of 'done with you'.

Because I try to reason with you and speak sense? ..u sure are illogical.

[spike]

How should society be organized?

It depends. It depends on what a society is capable of. Some societies are capable of much more than others. Some societies are highly developed and complex.

Highly developed and complex societies appear to be more successful and enduring. Complex societies have a higher energy level and accomplish more. So to me it is obvious how a society should be organized, in a way that adds to its complexity, where there are many independent interests competing with each other in order to make it as vibrant, legitimate and representative as possible.

The best kind of society is an open society that is diverse and varied, in which complexity and the energy necessary to sustain it can emerge and develop.

An organized society needs governing. For best results it require a governance that is transparent and accountable. It also require a governance that is capable of adapting to the changing world. Many social governances around the world have failed because of their incapability of coping and adapting to change. As a result many of those societies have virtually collapsed because in their static governance they didn't develop the complexity and energy to sustain them.

[Wyman]

Highly developed and complex societies appear to be more successful and enduring. Complex societies have a higher energy level and accomplish more. So to me it is obvious how a society should be organized, in a way that adds to its complexity, where there are many independent interests competing with each other in order to make it as vibrant, legitimate and representative as possible.

Correlation v. causation. It may be that societies that endure for a long time become complex over time. So endurance causes complexity rather than complexity causing endurance.

[spike]

"As Cuba Shifts Toward Capitalism, Inequality Grows More Visible"

When I read that headline in the paper I thought about entropy and the second law of thermodynamics, which virtually says that if everything (energy) is equal no work is done and therefore a system decays and falls apart. That seems to be the story of Cuba and countries that have been under communist rule, where in theory everything was equal. And in being equal in living standards those countries systems have deteriorated to the point of inevitable collapse.

If you have ever been to Havana you would have noticed how deteriorated the buildings are. That is because people don't have the money or incentive to fix them. (Under communism there isn't the creative tension that inequality fosters.) In comparison, in countries that deal with capitalism people have money to repair and fix buildings because there is an inequality and the imbalance that creates the energy and work to keep the system going.

Unfortunately for many this kind of disparity is needed to keep a society going. A society needs a disequilibrium to give it energy and work. Cuba and other communist countries thwarted disequilibrium (read competition), thus creating a state of inevitable decline by trying to make all people equal.

Societies need the struggle they face with inequality (includes the fight against inequality) in order to keep them alive and functioning.

[duszek]

And yet, Cubans have very long life expectancy. Much longer than US citizens for example.

Inspite of ugly buildings ?
Due to smoking cigars, drinking rum and salsa dancing ?