~ Do we Believe What we Believe? ~

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Whole:FTFY


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[attofishpi]

Blaggard - i didn't actually mind too much Bill's response. Simple fact is that Christian churches pull all the good shit out of the bible and contort it to paint God as some sort of loving fluffy old grandpa, and Bill i too was brought up through Catholicism, a rather strict all boys public school -not strict in the sense of pushing the 'faith' button, but in other ways.

If Christianity taught us more of the old Testament, and God's other side perhaps there would be a more balanced appreciation of this entity, perhaps there wouldn't be quite as many disciples turning into atheists on realising that God never claimed to be as 'good' as Christian preachers make it out to be....a God perhaps would reside in ones mind more balanced and reflective of life and all its drudgery.

Blaggard, you made a statement of God being perfect...God stated that it is a jealous God somewhere in that there buy bull...not quite perfect is it really.

[Arising_uk]

Arising_uk - What do you mean by GNU?

It's Gnu not GNU as the latter is useful whereas the former is a waste of thought.

Gnu(noun) - a budding guru, now-a-days most usually found upon the Interweeb seeking acolytes. Can be identified by their utterance of meaningless or contradictory aphorisms and vague and meaningless nonsense about a hidden 'Truth' or 'Reality' always just out of reach. Common traits, an inability to answer sentences with question marks, acute selective reading ability, massive belief confirmation bias, ad-hominen psycho-babble and a complete inability to walk their talk or even talk their walk. Be wary of such beasts. Preventative vaccination advised, i.e. a study of Philosophy, in particular a dose of critical philosophy and Logic as practiced in Philosophy now-a-days

[Bill Wiltrack]

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I'm not the type of traditional philosopher that fits into something that you can easily understand.


I, like many other active members here,have devoted their lives to the practice of disciplined philosophical practice.

It's different from just thought. I get reading philosophy. It is the life-blood of any true philosopher. But reading about past philosophers is not the end-all of a life in philosophy. Just as actually playing music is different than just reading music.



I think we all fit. I haven't found the need to make-up derogatory names for fellow members. However, that need does exist and is expressed by other members here. That is fine, and that too is necessary. I wish all here luck and continued insight.


Do we believe what we believe?





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[Arising_uk]

.I'm not the type of traditional philosopher that fits into something that you can easily understand

Thats because you are a gnu not a philosopher.

I, like many other active members here,have devoted their lives to the practice of disciplined philosophical practice.

And according to you the results are appalling.

It's different from just thought. ...

"Just thought"

I get reading philosophy. It is the life-blood of any true philosopher. ...

Then why haven't you read any of those we call the philosophers?

But reading about past philosophers is not the end-all of a life in philosophy. Just as actually playing music is different than just reading music.

Very true and in Philosophy, like Music, you apply what you can read. You appear to think reading philosophy is like watching TV, i.e. no interaction or thought required. The point of the writing of most of the past philosophers is to use reason to produce a train of thought that one can follow to the end and there discover if one thinks the conclusions justified by the premises, its hard work in the main and requires much mental effort to find a refutation that makes sense to one and if one can't then one should be converted to the thought. Its why, I think, some philosophy students go a bit bananas sometimes.

I think we all fit. I haven't found the need to make-up derogatory names for fellow members. However, that need does exist and is expressed by other members here. That is fine, and that too is necessary. I wish all here luck and continued insight.

If the cap fits.

Do we believe what we believe? [/size].

Gnu.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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FTFY: In Philosophy, as in Music, you may be able to apply what you read. The point of the writing of a true philosopher is to use reason to produce a train of thought that transcends the written word into the multidimensional worlds of our continuing realities.






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[ReliStuPhD]

Now, you won't find the word perfect in the Bible, for the actual word perfect did not exist back then.

Incorrect. The word used by the Greeks was "teleios" (τέλειος), was derived from "telos," and can definitely be found in the Bible (~20 times). Matt 5:48 (below) is one example. As for Heaven being declared "perfect," it is correct to say that's not explicit in the Bible. It is, however, implicit insofar as the "abode" of the perfect God is similarly perfect.

Matt 5:48: Ἔσεσθε οὖν ὑμεῖς τέλειοι ὡς ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ οὐράνιος τέλειός ἐστιν.
"Therefore you are to be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect." (NASB)

EDIT: I think my point about heaven being perfect as an implicit notion is what you're after anyway, so the only disagreement would be on the actual presence of "perfect" in the Bible.

[Arising_uk]

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FTFY: In Philosophy, as in Music, you may be able to apply what you read. The point of the writing of a true philosopher is to use reason to produce a train of thought that transcends the written word into the multidimensional worlds of our continuing realities.

Nah! That's what a Gnu would write and ironically enough one just did.

The clue to the Gnu is in here, "that transcends the written word into the multidimensional worlds of our continuing realities", can you spot it?

[thedoc]

Now, you won't find the word perfect in the Bible, for the actual word perfect did not exist back then.

Incorrect. The word used by the Greeks was "teleios" (τέλειος), was derived from "telos," and can definitely be found in the Bible (~20 times). Matt 5:48 (below) is one example. As for Heaven being declared "perfect," it is correct to say that's not explicit in the Bible. It is, however, implicit insofar as the "abode" of the perfect God is similarly perfect.

Matt 5:48: Ἔσεσθε οὖν ὑμεῖς τέλειοι ὡς ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ οὐράνιος τέλειός ἐστιν.
"Therefore you are to be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect." (NASB)

Hmmm, Gives you reason to question just how much Bill knows about the Bible, which is ironic considering how much he spews about it.

Also it appears that you have studied the Bible in the Greek, how about Biblical Hebrew? You might be handy to have around.

[ReliStuPhD]

Also it appears that you have studied the Bible in the Greek, how about Biblical Hebrew? You might be handy to have around.

Alas, no Hebrew. I had a choice in seminary and Greek won. Currently, I'm working on Arabic for my PhD, so my attempt to escape the "hard" language back then has backfired. Karma won.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Don't really care about rubbing your nose in it - the point is too small to really pursue and I am sure just a slip on your part but focus upon the actual common English that I use in the referred-to quote -



The first few years of my formal education were spent in a strict Catholic school. I remember my Catholicism teacher saying, Heaven is perfect. Everything there is perfect and eternal. That has stuck with me all these years!


Now, you won't find the word perfect in the Bible, for the actual word perfect did not exist back then.

Same as the direct perfect quote where it is said that we will go to heaven, hell, or purgatory. There is no exact quote or one sentence.


However, heaven, hell, and purgatory are EXACTLY what people believe that the Bible states where you go when people die.


I agree with you - that belief is an association. NOT a direct literal statement.


You're welcome, and thank you for allowing me the opportunity to clarify this important point.


I look forward to more of your content in the coming days.





...didn't say the concept perfect did not exist. Again, I will assume English is not your first language an in my overall philosophical gist the point is moot.




I do appreciate the attention. Hope, in time, you will be able to see a wider scope.




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[thedoc]

Also it appears that you have studied the Bible in the Greek, how about Biblical Hebrew? You might be handy to have around.

Alas, no Hebrew. I had a choice in seminary and Greek won. Currently, I'm working on Arabic for my PhD, so my attempt to escape the "hard" language back then has backfired. Karma won.

Good, that might come in handy if the discussion ever gets to the Quran.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Apology accepted. Kind words but you really didn't need to.



You will always hold favor with me.




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Now, back to topic at hand!


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[sjeff70]

What about babies who die. They automatically go to heaven without having made a single conscious choice. Does that sound fair?

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Life isn't fair...it just is.




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