The French Question

[henry quirk]

Well, I can't say they had it coming but -- again -- 'if you're gonna poke at the hornet's nest, have a flamethrower on hand to burn the fuckers when they swarm'.

[tbieter]

See, I thought it made me a realist (sane and self-directed).

But: as you like.

No, you are like inanimate beings, and like non-human animate beings. Terms that relate to human beings do not ontologically apply to you.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Countries need to close their doors to muslims. Let them stay in their own countries and sort out their own shit. Oh, and the US needs to stop poking its big, fat nose in the Middle East. If the world doesn't take a stand soon (and I don't mean blowing up their countries!) we will all have no freedom left before long.

[Blaggard]

.




Islam is a beautiful religion. As it is it is still only a religion.

And, like Christianity, has it's share of psychotics. At times, violent psychotics.

I think if the West stopped invading their land in search of oil, you would be amazed at how little fundamentalists there were. Of course the West was never interested in oil in the ME, just democracy and camels, and the WMD they lost when they turned their backs, which never actually existed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: you go acquiring land because you like kicking bees nest, and not respecting sovereignty, you are going to end up covered in bees.

It's very simple really, don't land grab, humans are really, really, really territorial, you move into their land and take their honey, whatever the direction of the map, you will pay. If the age of empire has learned anything, you reap what you sow and in spades. Pity the 'new' Russian primate never studied a text book, he will learn.

Don't get me wrong I condemn any fundamentalist nutter: Jew, Christian, or Muslim, as said though, it's a dumb idea to harass people, it's politics and economics that is the touch paper that lights the fuse of dumb war. Sadly people like making fireworks.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

.




Islam is a beautiful religion. As it is it is still only a religion.

And, like Christianity, has it's share of psychotics. At times, violent psychotics.

I think if the West stopped invading their land in search of oil, you would be amazed at how little fundamentalists there were. Of course the West was never interested in oil in the ME, just democracy and camels, and the WMD they lost when they turned their backs, which never actually existed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: you go acquiring land because you like kicking bees nest, and not respecting sovereignty, you are going to end up covered in bees.

It's very simple really, don't land grab, humans are really, really, really territorial, you move into their land and take their honey, whatever the direction of the map, you will pay. If the age of empire has learned anything, you reap what you sow and in spades. Pity the 'new' Russian primate never studied a text book, he will learn.

Don't get me wrong I condemn any fundamentalist nutter: Jew, Christian, or Muslim, as said though, it's a dumb idea to harass people, it's politics and economics that is the touch paper that lights the fuse of dumb war. Sadly people like making fireworks.

True, and the more they are attacked the more the fanatics get a hold. Any idiot can look at Iraq now and see how it works. It was pretty secular under Hussein, and yes, he committed mass murder, but not on the scale that the self-righteous US has. It was up the the Iraqi people themselves to get rid of him when they wanted to.

[Impenitent]

motives aside, caliphate or petty religious vengeance, they are coming

bend over, pray to leviathan or kill them first

-Imp

[vegetariantaxidermy]

motives aside, caliphate or petty religious vengeance, they are coming

bend over, pray to leviathan or kill them first

-Imp

Kill who?

[Blaggard]

motives aside, caliphate or petty religious vengeance, they are coming

bend over, pray to leviathan or kill them first

-Imp

Kill who?

Kill the imaginary monkey that lives in your closet, you wont find imp giving an answer to anything, perhaps that's why he's here like all figments of our imagination, such as Tea ultra right wing numb nuts , or God?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8l2bzyyKqg

[Blaggard]

.




Islam is a beautiful religion. As it is it is still only a religion.

And, like Christianity, has it's share of psychotics. At times, violent psychotics.

I think if the West stopped invading their land in search of oil, you would be amazed at how little fundamentalists there were. Of course the West was never interested in oil in the ME, just democracy and camels, and the WMD they lost when they turned their backs, which never actually existed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: you go acquiring land because you like kicking bees nest, and not respecting sovereignty, you are going to end up covered in bees.

It's very simple really, don't land grab, humans are really, really, really territorial, you move into their land and take their honey, whatever the direction of the map, you will pay. If the age of empire has learned anything, you reap what you sow and in spades. Pity the 'new' Russian primate never studied a text book, he will learn.

Don't get me wrong I condemn any fundamentalist nutter: Jew, Christian, or Muslim, as said though, it's a dumb idea to harass people, it's politics and economics that is the touch paper that lights the fuse of dumb war. Sadly people like making fireworks.

True, and the more they are attacked the more the fanatics get a hold. Any idiot can look at Iraq now and see how it works. It was pretty secular under Hussein, and yes, he committed mass murder, but not on the scale that the self-righteous US has. It was up the the Iraqi people themselves to get rid of him when they wanted to.

Yeah sometimes war is justified, sometimes there are bad people, these days you do wonder who the bad people actually are, the West or... there's no convenient cowboys in white hats or black, any more, if there ever was outside of the movies.

[henry quirk]

"Terms that relate to human beings do not ontologically apply to you."

So, not a fan..*shrug*

[Lev Muishkin]

I think the more this sort of thing happens we will see more squeezes on personal freedoms: against Moslems but also against personal privacy.

In the UK I'd like to see a complete revision of the policy of "Faith Schools" funding. I do not think we should target Islamic schools, but evenly question all schools which offer indoctrination: Jewish and Christian schools need to go too.
Education can be about getting kids to ask their own questions and telling them not knowing is okay when it comes to questions for which there are no clear answers.
This generation is lost. Lost to a naive multiculturalism that has failed to integrate disparate groups. A multiculturalism that has made it okay to think terrorism is romantic, and rejecting reason in favour of faith is somehow okay. Well it just is not!

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting, and I don't expect humanity to even recognise the underlying problems here, but I have to say it all the same.

In the short term I think we will see a rejection of the mantra "Islam is a religion of Peace": a lie offered by the establishment in an attempt to de-fuse the growing suspicion of Muslims. People are not stupid. Islam is many things, and a diminishing number of Muslims seem peaceful.
I think there is a long road to traduce Islam and make it less attractive. Unless the government and media do not tread carefully the first reaction will be more violence from radicals. I would go so far as to suggest that the media will not shrink from that but allow more violence to set the scene to allow more negative propaganda against Islam. One would have thought that 9/11 was enough; that 7/7 was enough; Lee Rigsby; murdered journalists 4 years ago over Mohammed images; and much more besides.

The other major change that has to be made is a complete withdrawal from Middle East politics, which since 1978, or even 1948 seems designed to ensure the complete destabilisation of The Sphere of Islam. We need to stop interfering. One might argue that Islam need to be kept destabilised. True or not, we need to keep our hands clean.
It is highly likely that the Sunni/Shia and other tribal splits in Islam will do the job if preventing a unified Islam, we have no need to engineer it ourselves. If we (the West) are not to appear false, hypocritical, and the Big Satan we need to live up to our values; stop illegal detention; summary execution; torture. In short we need to curtail our evident war on Islam abroad whilst secularising at home; and maintain democratic and free principles whilst we are about it.

[Lev Muishkin]

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Islam is a beautiful religion. As it is it is still only a religion.

And, like Christianity, has it's share of psychotics. At times, violent psychotics.




.

The spaces in your post are like the spaces in your head. No religion is beautiful; is it a system of believe in which the followers are discouraged to think for themselves, or freely. All religions teach their "Wisdom" as a dogmatic and unyielding body of knowledge intended to "bind" the adherents into a unchallenging whole.
This is very ugly indeed.
But there is none so ugly as Islam itself.
The Koran compared Jews to monkeys. Islam recommends death to the apostate. And a burning in hell for all infidels - that is YOU.
Do you still think that is beautiful. The fact is you don't know the first thing about Islam.


Don't bother warning the disbelievers. Allah has made it impossible for them to believe so that he can torture them forever after they die. 2:6-7
Allah has sickened the hearts of disbelievers and increased their disease. He is a spiritual anti-doctor. 2:10
Allah has blinded the disbelievers. "Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see, Deaf, dumb and blind." 2:17-18
If you try to compose a surah that is better than those in the Quran, and then fail, Allah will burn you forever if you in the fire that he has prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24 <
They who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein." 2:39
Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. 2:61
Allah turned Sabbath-breaking Jews into apes to be despised and hated. All modern Jews are descendants of apes (or all modern apes are descendants of Sabbath-breaking Jews). 2:65-66
Christians and Jews (who believe in only part of the Scripture), will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85
"Allah has cursed them for their unbelief."
Because I disbelieve in his bullshit, Allah has cursed me, along with nearly six billion other non-Muslims. 2:88
The curse of Allah is on disbelievers. 2:89
"They have incurred anger upon anger. For disbelievers is a shameful doom." 90
Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But even that "would by no means remove the doom." 2:96
Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers. 2:98

[Lev Muishkin]

When Mohammed was 50 he married a six year old girl, 3 years later, the moment her tiny body was able to survive the abuse Mohammed consummated the marriage by raping her.

How fucking Beautiful is that?

[Blaggard]

9 he married a nine year old girl, how the fuck don't people know that. In Europe it was considered fair play to sleep with any woman who had grass on the wicket, it being time to play cricket. Times change even if religion doesn't.

And also only Quran referring to the above is perfect, you link the "surahs", you are talking about primates justification for war, like the Christian crusades. It's always politics, religion is just the icing on the shit cake.

They also said there is no division in islam, but lasted less time than it did in Christianity. Not that I want to laud any religion but they are all just very wrong, when human nature is in the mix.

I kinda like the Sufists, at least they were philosophical if a minority of "sureness".

"Surely the ones who have believed, and the ones who have Judaized, and the SabiÉîn (The Sabaeans) and Nasara, (Christians) and the Majûs (The Magians) and the ones who have associated, (i.e. other gods with Allah) surely Allah will distinguish between them on the Day of the Resurrection; surely Allah is an Ever-present Witness over everything."

Qur'an, even the Devil can quote scripture, but the devil is in the non cherry picked details. For example it was the polytheists that the Imams really hated if you look deep enough, but no one looks further into anything when they have already decided evil is as it is. The Dhimmi or people of the book were always treated with utmost respect, even in war. Which is less than can be said of the crusades. Exept of course on the Muslim side, they didn't eat women and babies at least.

[spike]

The killings at Charlie Hebdo brought into focus another religious division facing France. Not only is France facing an Islamic 'question' but it's also facing a much deeper one, the Jewish 'question'. There is a rise in anti-Semitism in France. This open wound has been with the French far longer than the one it faces with Islam. Many Jews have moved to Israel because of this deep festering sore in the body of France. And many more are contemplating the move. If this trend continues and grows, perhaps someday there wouldn't be any Jews left in France. And as one commentator put it, France without Jews will not be France.

The emigrating of French Jews to Israel will be a tremendous benefit for Israel. They are well educated and resourceful. So I found it very interesting that the prime minster of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, was in Paris for the big march supporting free speech and against terrorism. I am thinking he was there as a way of recruiting Jews for Israel, silently saying to them, why stay in a country that doesn't love and respect you.

Let's hope that all these questions induce soul-searching and deep thinking among the French in order that they become better equipped to deal with the future.