Can time be infinite?

[SpheresOfBalance]

I'm so glad i've joined this Forum.
I've learned that the Theory of Relativity is totally wrong. It's the clocks that just seem to stop working properly everytime that ToR is tested.

~Those pesky clocks!!!!!

No apparently it's above your head. I do not say this to prove anything. I only bring up things to make one think. I'm a nobody, a nothing. I'm just the only one brave enough to say so.

[mtmynd1]

Clocks, smocks, phlox... when one comes to the realization that time keepers are inventions of our mind's insistence to know what time is and how do we determine it's measurement - nano-seconds, seconds, minutes, days, weeks, months, years, decades...? and so mind continues to tick off the moments in search for what these moments are and how to measure their distance between each moment.

Meanwhile life is continuing all around us far, far longer than the hu'man has been on this single rock spinning around a Sun that sustains not only we hu'mans but all of life and has been very successful at doing just that - living... not concerned with measuring moments. Why? We all live and we all die, some in hours, others in days while some live to be in their hundreds, i.e. they live long enough to spin around the sun 100 times plus, and what has been gained in the end? One homo sapiens lived lived longer than another homo sapiens on the same planet, breathing the same air, drinking the same water while using the same body parts such as hands and fingers, arms and legs and same genitalia to reproduce... and quite successfully it has turned out... life and death happens or as is it said : "shit happens."

We make time as we make economics or philosophies. We make our religions and sciences based upon what we have accumulated through our senses and the limitations of those senses. Our knowledge is sense-bound, i.e. we cannot learn what we do not see, touch, smell, taste or hear. Because our knowledge is matter-based (even our thoughts are 'matter-based', the physical world)... it is built upon what we know about things and 'stuff' that our senses have "sensed" about the world around us.

Mind is responsible for all that we have assimilated to date of the world and a few other planets within our own solar system. We can measure that and conclude that our knowledge is only significant to our minds. What about our Being..?

I hear you asking, "what do you mean about 'being?'" which is exactly what all of us do when confronted with that one simple word, Being. Until we attain a full grasp of what 'being' is and how to be a 'being' we will continue debating and opining on the mundane world that means so much to us... and believe it, hu'manity is the ONLY species upon this planet that gives a shit about the mundane world. We only care about ourselves on this rock. Period. Everything we have learned, everything we have become knowledgeable about is for our own good... 'mind food'. What we are doing to this world of which we should be stewards of, is destructive and yet we instinctively "know" it but we do not live it. We are not Beings but rather we are struggling to be that which instinct continues delivering to us. But after all the measured moments we have been upon this rock, (and we are the youngest species), and all the knowledge we have gained and shared, we still are unable to Be.... to know our true selves. Mind is not interested in our true Self, it is only concerned in it's own direction and even that! we do not know.

We speak a good talk about "freedom" and have sought this concept perhaps all our existence but yet, in spite of all the knowledge we have accumulated throughout hu'man history, we are no closer to understanding Being... our Being. We give tremendous credence to intellect... we reward it, give it moneys, give it statuettes, we write books and make documentaries about it, we honor intellect as one would a God but what has it provided the people of the earth? It is not intellect that coexists with wisdom. That is a false belief. Intelligence is the one true cohort of Wisdom.

Intelligence is within ... it is a gift of life like breathing... it keeps us alive. If we lack intelligence, we become a ward of the people who are clueless even if they are able to count to 1,000 or bake a cake... if we know from reading books or we know from hearing others ideas and opinions and we can repeat those things, society and even the learned considers that to be smart. But it isn't intelligence! It's amazing memory and in some cased that memory uses what it learns to repeat it to others so other can remember those things.

"Those things"... those things are outside us. "Those things" are not intelligence but intellect, the ability to remember and use those remembered things to better society. But that is not intelligence and definitely it is not wisdom. If we are cognizant enough and observe the world and people around us, we will find that there are many wise souls who are not intellectual. They have an innate sense about the world and the going on's around them.

[.... if you the reader has made it this far, you're tired of reading and I am tired of writing. It's Christmas Day for chrissakes!! I'll continue later down the line if there is any interest]

[mtmtyd1]

[attofishpi]

Can time be infinite?

If it isn't then how does now exist?

To contradict that, time is nothing more than an event, when the last photon fails to emit, then time ceases to exist.

Since time only exists totally reliant on the occurrence of an event. If there is not an event, not a photon emitting (time reversed= emit) then there is NO time.

Time in fact does NOT exist. All that exists are events by which wo\man can synchronise a thing called time.

http://www.androcies.com

[mtmynd1]

If it isn't then how does now exist?

> If you don't mind me sliding in thru the side door on this -

Re: "... how does now exist?" "Now" doesn't exist... it simply is "ever-present", without beginning and without end. It is the immediate suspension of 'time' and all we perceive this time-based existence to be.

Time in fact does NOT exist. All that exists are events by which wo\man can synchronise a thing called time.

Yes, you've got that right. Existence is time-based acceptance of the limitations of life and that which sustains it.

[jackles]

The self is time.

[mtmynd1]

The self is time.

Close... the Self is timeless. It is mind which defines 'time.'

[Ginkgo]

> If you don't mind me sliding in thru the side door on this -

Re: "... how does now exist?" "Now" doesn't exist... it simply is "ever-present", without beginning and without end. It is the immediate suspension of 'time' and all we perceive this time-based existence to be.

The assumption here is that time is indiscrete. As I mentioned in a previous posts moments of perceptual experience and not extensionless. In fact, the length of a conscious moment is the subject of cognitive consciousness. In other words, a conscious "now" can consist of more than one experience that qualifies as a single unified experience.

[Ginkgo]

Can time be infinite?

If it isn't then how does now exist?

To contradict that, time is nothing more than an event, when the last photon fails to emit, then time ceases to exist.

Since time only exists totally reliant on the occurrence of an event. If there is not an event, not a photon emitting (time reversed= emit) then there is NO time.

Time in fact does NOT exist. All that exists are events by which wo\man can synchronise a thing called time.

http://www.androcies.com

A theory of time can be explained equally well using discrete or indiscrete models. Both theories can offer an explanation for what we perceive as a "now" moment.

[Lev Muishkin]

I think SpheresofBalance's point is a bit more subtle; it is not simply that clocks are affected by gravitational and electromagnetic fields, but that all physical processes are.

Dah, if that were the case then time is indeed changed by direction. Sadly he does not mean that.

[SpheresOfBalance]

I'm so glad i've joined this Forum.

Welcome aboard.

I've learned that the Theory of Relativity is totally wrong. It's the clocks that just seem to stop working properly everytime that ToR is tested.

If you have learnt anything, it might be that different people interpret the same empirical data in their own way.

~Those pesky clocks!!!!!

I think SpheresofBalance's point is a bit more subtle; it is not simply that clocks are affected by gravitational and electromagnetic fields, but that all physical processes are.

I've known for some 'time' that you're one of the smarter ones here.

Oh and the second link is better for me, thanks! Do both links point to the exact same data?

I've started reading, but these 'times,' they are a busy. Soon the holidays shall be over, until the next 'time' around, if I can make 'time' for it, if I have enough 'time.'

[SpheresOfBalance]

Clocks, smocks, phlox... when one comes to the realization that time keepers are inventions of our mind's insistence to know what time is and how do we determine it's measurement - nano-seconds, seconds, minutes, days, weeks, months, years, decades...? and so mind continues to tick off the moments in search for what these moments are and how to measure their distance between each moment.

Meanwhile life is continuing all around us far, far longer than the hu'man has been on this single rock spinning around a Sun that sustains not only we hu'mans but all of life and has been very successful at doing just that - living... not concerned with measuring moments. Why? We all live and we all die, some in hours, others in days while some live to be in their hundreds, i.e. they live long enough to spin around the sun 100 times plus, and what has been gained in the end? One homo sapiens lived lived longer than another homo sapiens on the same planet, breathing the same air, drinking the same water while using the same body parts such as hands and fingers, arms and legs and same genitalia to reproduce... and quite successfully it has turned out... life and death happens or as is it said : "shit happens."

We make time as we make economics or philosophies. We make our religions and sciences based upon what we have accumulated through our senses and the limitations of those senses. Our knowledge is sense-bound, i.e. we cannot learn what we do not see, touch, smell, taste or hear. Because our knowledge is matter-based (even our thoughts are 'matter-based', the physical world)... it is built upon what we know about things and 'stuff' that our senses have "sensed" about the world around us.

Mind is responsible for all that we have assimilated to date of the world and a few other planets within our own solar system. We can measure that and conclude that our knowledge is only significant to our minds. What about our Being..?

I hear you asking, "what do you mean about 'being?'" which is exactly what all of us do when confronted with that one simple word, Being. Until we attain a full grasp of what 'being' is and how to be a 'being' we will continue debating and opining on the mundane world that means so much to us... and believe it, hu'manity is the ONLY species upon this planet that gives a shit about the mundane world. We only care about ourselves on this rock. Period. Everything we have learned, everything we have become knowledgeable about is for our own good... 'mind food'. What we are doing to this world of which we should be stewards of, is destructive and yet we instinctively "know" it but we do not live it. We are not Beings but rather we are struggling to be that which instinct continues delivering to us. But after all the measured moments we have been upon this rock, (and we are the youngest species), and all the knowledge we have gained and shared, we still are unable to Be.... to know our true selves. Mind is not interested in our true Self, it is only concerned in it's own direction and even that! we do not know.

We speak a good talk about "freedom" and have sought this concept perhaps all our existence but yet, in spite of all the knowledge we have accumulated throughout hu'man history, we are no closer to understanding Being... our Being. We give tremendous credence to intellect... we reward it, give it moneys, give it statuettes, we write books and make documentaries about it, we honor intellect as one would a God but what has it provided the people of the earth? It is not intellect that coexists with wisdom. That is a false belief. Intelligence is the one true cohort of Wisdom.

Intelligence is within ... it is a gift of life like breathing... it keeps us alive. If we lack intelligence, we become a ward of the people who are clueless even if they are able to count to 1,000 or bake a cake... if we know from reading books or we know from hearing others ideas and opinions and we can repeat those things, society and even the learned considers that to be smart. But it isn't intelligence! It's amazing memory and in some cased that memory uses what it learns to repeat it to others so other can remember those things.

"Those things"... those things are outside us. "Those things" are not intelligence but intellect, the ability to remember and use those remembered things to better society. But that is not intelligence and definitely it is not wisdom. If we are cognizant enough and observe the world and people around us, we will find that there are many wise souls who are not intellectual. They have an innate sense about the world and the going on's around them.

[.... if you the reader has made it this far, you're tired of reading and I am tired of writing. It's Christmas Day for chrissakes!! I'll continue later down the line if there is any interest]

[mtmtyd1]

Great job! Seriously, we seem to be on the same page. This, that you have written, is part of the truth, that is human kind, the part that us real observers get, it's not about memory, it's not about numbers, it's about seeing life as nothing but a huge puzzle, but more importantly putting the pieces where they actually belong.

When you talked of us doing that which is for ourselves, you also spoke of us actually not doing so, No? Or surely it seems that way to me. So that makes us what? Ignorant? Stupid? Fools? Insane? Surely not completely Selfish? As we are indeed, eventually killing ourselves off, at least the species. Isn't that our current heading? Yet selfishness seems to be the crux of the matter. Maybe we are Selfish due to at least one of our instinctual emotions, Fear, that we insanely attempt to stay deaths hands, and in some ways, it surely seems as though we do so, at least in the short term, but what of the long term? What of humankind? What of our children's, children's children? Can we identify? Were we not children? Have we forgotten what we were? Is that the problem, can we only live in the now forgetting what has gotten us here? Should we really not care about our young innocent selves, being stepped on, in oh so many ways, and in so doing, step on the ones that are yet to come, because of some selfish fear based, "Those days are over, now I can have it my way, I just got to have it now," mentality? Are we forgetting our 'complete' selves? Are we fully selfish, I mean really, when all is finally said and done, will we be seen as actually selfish, by some alien race that finds our dead planet? Shall earth bounce back without us, the failed experiment, far too blind to see the truth for the self?

Only 'time' shall tell. No, I really don't think "our" 'time' is infinite, no!

Seven Billion and still counting...

If we as individuals certainly can't have it, to hell with the rest????

Yes I believe we're on the same page. At least two of the ones that are observers, the ones of truth and honesty in understanding. How many species have humans killed off? And thus we shall be the last of those that we kill off. Simply a joke of no real intellect, a hairless ape, chasing down a golden trinket, in spite of them selves.

No, I really don't think "our" 'time' is infinite, no!

[uwot]

Dah, if that were the case then time is indeed changed by direction.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. That direction is relative is a cornerstone of Special Relativity; so is the idea that the rate at which events happen is affected by motion, which is demonstrably the case, see here for instance: http://willibouwman.blogspot.co.uk/2014 ... plane.html

Sadly he does not mean that.

From what I gather, SpheresOfBalance is not disputing that objects in motion experience time differently, rather he is proposing a mechanism that might account for it. (My own version can be seen here: http://willibouwman.blogspot.co.uk/2014 ... ou-go.html ) Without going into too much detail, Einstein was building on Galilean and Lorentz transformations, which can be used to calculate the perceived difference in other inertial frames, and claiming that in addition to our perceptions, there are physical effects, which has been demonstrated unequivocally; not least by Hafele-Keating.

[attofishpi]

Thanks uwot, enjoyed reading the pieces on fields while having a beer at my local..nice site will have a further look later

[uwot]

Thanks uwot, enjoyed reading the pieces on fields while having a beer at my local..nice site will have a further look later

Very kind of you to say so. I'm glad you like it and I shall be adding to it as soon as my head clears (current ETA: March) .
Thank you.

[mtmynd1]

... a conscious "now" can consist of more than one experience that qualifies as a single unified experience.

Indeed... the variable being our ability to remain in the "Now", which mind does not allow unless through great discipline, Mind constantly is at play bring us doubt, confusion, ceaseless questioning... challenging itself on an ongoing journey without destination.

Meditation quite likely was the impetus to find out how to "quiet the mind". We may not be aware of some of the ways to "quiet the mind",e.g. lovemaking/sex, music, involvement in any art or craft can easily quiet the mind as well as the mundane, housekeeping, gardening, exercising, etc. is done with eagerness and passion, the mind tends to take a backseat to our life.

It is that state of being, when mind is at rest, is when we tend to accomplish what our mind only hinted at.