~ The Truth is a Hard Pill to Swallow ~

[bobevenson]

Thank God there are people on this Earth that don't consider it whining!

[Lev Muishkin]

Which is worse, I wonder...

Being water boarded (or humiliated in other ways) as a medical team stands by to revive you should you actually do more than sputter and panic...

...or...

...having your head cut off with a knife or sword?

In the first case: you may suffer but you'll live to (potentially) terrorize another day.

In the second: you're friggin' dead.


The fundamental question: did the use of torture yield information that furthered American interests (saved lives)?

Some folks say 'no'.

Some folks say 'yes.

Me, not being privy to a whole whack of classified information, can't say either way.

And neither can any of you.

'nuff said.

You've said nothing but spewed a false dichotomy.
The lists of torture methods are not related to beheadings in any way.

As for "information" the verdict is nil. No useful information results from torture.

[Lev Muishkin]

Bush poured a little water on captured terrorists

Obama fired drone missiles, murdering terrorists and the innocent civilians who happened to be in the vicinity of the terrorists...

keep swallowing that which your union master feeds you

-Imp

Then why not introduce it in every police station across the USA?
Is this the sort of government you want in charge?

The late Chris Hitchens, as supporter of the war on terrorism, and a valiant spokesperson against Islam, put himself in the position of the torture victim and his response was unequivocal.
Even though he knew they were only simulating the torture against him, he was horrified by the experience.

[henry quirk]

"No useful information results from torture."

Some folks agree with you; some folks don't.

*shrug*

#

"The lists of torture methods are not related to beheadings in any way."

You missed my point and frankly I'm too fucking tired of all of you 'goody two shoes' types to repeat it.

Think what you like...write letters to your representatives...demand justice...march in the streets...pray.

Me: goin' have a cup of coffee and a smoke...

[henry quirk]

"he was horrified by the experience"

Of course he was.

It's TORTURE.

The one tortured is SUPPOSED to be horrified and discomforted and terrorized and humiliated.



I'm done...carry on.

[bobevenson]

I'm done...carry on.

No, you're finished, morally and spiritually, so you might as well just drop dead.

[Wyman]

Then why not introduce it in every police station across the USA?

Because we treat citizens differently than enemies. Any more questions?

[Wyman]

Bob, prior to the Senate staffers report I didn't know (or care) what the hell the CIA was doing at Gitmo. But: I know now and I'm not surprised.

You didn't know or care what the CIA was doing, but you're not surprised? That statement shows just how fucking moronic you are.

Bob, I'd be willing to bet that if newspapers ran this same story one year from now, you would be just as shocked and surprised. The fact that some of us read enough and have enough learning capacity to not be shocked at every turn does not make us moronic.

[bobevenson]

The fact that some of us read enough and have enough learning capacity to not be shocked at every turn does not make us moronic.

Who the hell do you think you're kidding? Don't stand there and say you were aware of the total scope of the CIA's torture agenda. It took a U.S. Congressional investigation and its recent report to reveal all the sordid details, and much of that report was redacted and not made public. So your comment is, in fact, moronic!

[Wyman]

The fact that some of us read enough and have enough learning capacity to not be shocked at every turn does not make us moronic.

Who the hell do you think you're kidding? Don't stand there and say you were aware of the total scope of the CIA's torture agenda. It took a U.S. Congressional investigation and its recent report to reveal all the sordid details, and much of that report was redacted and not made public. So your comment is, in fact, moronic!

Did you know that certain congressional oversight committees knew of the program while it was going on and approved it, that these documents are merely being declassified and most of them were seen years ago by members of Congress? I don't know what you mean by 'all the sordid details,' but it seems to me that waterboarding is sordid enough - or as sordid as any of the other details. And we knew of this for a long time now. You just don't read the newspapers.

I'll bet you any amount of money that years from now, details not published in the recent report will come out that are much worse. Do you think the CIA allowed every nasty truth to make its way to this investigation? Remember, they're spies, a large part of their profession consists of hiding the truth from people. They were so sketchy in this project that the FBI wouldn't even work with them. I was surprised only one person died, that they admitted to. But they only admitted that he died from negligence, not intentionally and not from waterboarding.

These are the same people who told Bush that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They're secretive, often incompetent and possess in cases like this almost unlimited power. Why would you be surprised at any details that come out?

[henry quirk]

"morally and spiritually, so you might as well just drop dead"

I'm amoral, have no soul, and I ain't dead yet.

You should be glad, Bob.

If it weren't for me, and folks like me, who would you feel superior to?

#

"moronic!"

*sigh*

One more time, Bob: if one has sufficient experience with what human beings are capable of then the details of the report are not surprising. Far worse, than what was outlined in that report, is done by human beings to human beings daily.

You must be very sheltered if anything in the report shocked you.

[bobevenson]

Did you know that certain congressional oversight committees knew of the program while it was going on and approved it?

But you didn't know, did you, and don't say you did!

[bobevenson]

You must be very sheltered if anything in the report shocked you.

Just because the head of North Korea fed his uncle to the dogs doesn't mean Americans wouldn't be shocked if Obama did it. God, you must be the biggest jerk in this forum!

[henry quirk]

"you must be the biggest jerk in this forum!"

HA!

Mebbe so...*shrug*

[henry quirk]

"...doesn't mean Americans wouldn't be shocked..."

No doubt since most Americans self-hobble with all manner of fairytale morality.

No really my problem, Bob.