~ The Truth is a Hard Pill to Swallow ~

[Impenitent]

Bush poured a little water on captured terrorists

Obama fired drone missiles, murdering terrorists and the innocent civilians who happened to be in the vicinity of the terrorists...

keep swallowing that which your union master feeds you

-Imp

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Like I said, Truth is a Hard Pill to Swallow

Torture, death...war is hell.



When you are so full of the fear of death you cannot even swallow.




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[Arising_uk]

...

Again: it may not work at all (I suspect it does). ...

Obviously it does. The problem is information creep or overload as the tortured will confess to everything and anything and the torturer, if not asking for very specific information, can't sort out which is real or not. The torturer also tends to not believe them so encourages falsehoods to be produced and tends to supply the information needed to produce them. It's why torture for information pretty much only works in situations HQ described, i.e. 'where's my kid!!?' and why soldiers have done it in battlefield situations time immemorial, "What's the position and strength facing us ahead?'. This is why I think, what's been done has pretty much been a useless exercise as it was just a general trawl of a fairly rag-bag group and all-in-all just a recruiting poster for the hypocrisy of a war for 'Democracy'.

[henry quirk]

"A guise of obtaining valuable information from torture is a false narrative."

I disagree, but: as you like , Bill.

[henry quirk]

"This is why I think, what's been done has pretty much been a useless exercise"

If you can believe the report, then -- yeah -- it was pointless.

Thing is: the report is, I think, the product of biased folks who say torture is never permissible.

Again: some folks say valuable information was obtained by way of Gitmo torture, and some folks say nuthin' of value came from the Gitmo torture.

Pick your poison.

[Wyman]

War is hell. I'll start worrying when U.S. citizens start disappearing or being denied habeas corpus relief. By the way, whether hard or not, I swallowed the pill ten years ago. Why are some people acting as if we didn't know that waterboarding was used a long time ago?

[bobevenson]

Why are some people acting as if we didn't know that waterboarding was used a long time ago?

The horrific extent of our torture program is what is coming to light, and anybody not absolutely shocked by it is depravity defined.

[henry quirk]

"anybody not absolutely shocked by it is depravity defined"

I say anyone who is shocked by it is naive, in the extreme.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Even if you separate the concept from this particular act or any other circumstance - Torture is not humane. Torture is not permissible IN ANY CONTEXT.



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[Wyman]

"anybody not absolutely shocked by it is depravity defined"

I say anyone who is shocked by it is naive, in the extreme.

Well we have new nicknames - HQ is UM or 'unmitigated monster' and I am DD, 'depravity defined.'

Seriously, though, Bob, perhaps I just have a better imagination than you. I knew that these people were taken to 'dark' areas in Jordan and I think Hungary by CIA agents and subject to 'enhanced interrogation' which included (but was not limited to) waterboarding. These dark areas were mostly, to my knowledge, in small foreign countries like Jordan and Hungary who were allies of the U.S. and heavily dependent on the U.S. - i.e. they were glad to do 'favors.'

It is not difficult to imagine what CIA agents were up to or the possibility that they may have gotten carried away. I'd have been shocked if they did not, especially right after 9/11 when they thought there may be another attack imminently (remember the 'dirty bomb' scare?). Did you trust the CIA agents, Bob? If so, what, in the history of the CIA, did you base that trust upon?

[bobevenson]

"anybody not absolutely shocked by it is depravity defined"

I say anyone who is shocked by it is naive, in the extreme.

Right, like you were well aware of all the horrendous bullshit the CIA has been engaged in (translation: don't make me laugh!).

[bobevenson]

I knew that these people were taken to 'dark' areas in Jordan and I think Hungary by CIA agents and subject to 'enhanced interrogation' which included (but was not limited to) waterboarding. Shit, waterboarding was a Sunday School picnic compared to the rest of their satanic activities!

It is not difficult to imagine what CIA agents were up to or the possibility that they may have gotten carried away. Right, just like Satan himself has gotten carried away on occasion!

Did you trust the CIA agents, Bob? I wouldn't trust a CIA agent any further than I could throw the motherfucker!

[henry quirk]

Bob, prior to the Senate staffers report I didn't know (or care) what the hell the CIA was doing at Gitmo.

But: I know now and I'm not surprised.

That you are surprised/shocked/outraged reveals the depth of your naivete.

#

"HQ is UM or 'unmitigated monster' and I am DD, 'depravity defined.'"

HA!

I stand in good company.

[bobevenson]

Bob, prior to the Senate staffers report I didn't know (or care) what the hell the CIA was doing at Gitmo. But: I know now and I'm not surprised.

You didn't know or care what the CIA was doing, but you're not surprised? That statement shows just how fucking moronic you are.

[henry quirk]

Bob, knowing what humans are capable of (in general), no, I'm not surprised.

Now, if you wanna continue talking, refrain from insulting me.

I think I've shown you far more civility than you have I.

-----

Changed my mind: insult away, Bob.

What the fuck do I care what some idealistic (insane) communitarian (cog) thinks?

Have at it, guy...done listenin' to you (and Bill whine) anyway.