Racism does it make sense?

[Lev Muishkin]

Take your own advise, as it surely applies to you. You that assume, jumping to conclusions, simply a means to antagonize argument, to fluff up your feathers, (to beat your chest like a gorilla), or you were surely in the dark.

Please refer to the suggestion I made above.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Take your own advise, as it surely applies to you. You that assume, jumping to conclusions, simply a means to antagonize argument, to fluff up your feathers, (to beat your chest like a gorilla), or you were surely in the dark.

Please refer to the suggestion I made above.

Take your own advise, as it surely applies to you. You that assume, jumping to conclusions, simply a means to antagonize argument, to fluff up your feathers, (to beat your chest like a gorilla), or you were surely in the dark.

[Kayla]

So the odds would be very good so long as you don't make Lev's error and cowardly pretend not to know that I was talking about ancestors going back far before the exploration and migration that became prevalent in the 1400s and earlier. But, concerning yourself, having ancestors that would also be easily told apart from each other because of their differing long-time geographical locations, in other words you being of mixed race, when people try to guess your race, they often guess wrong, and somehow according to you that establishes the ambiguity of all people's race.

i am still not sure what you mean by race, exactly, and why you consider that particular category important

An ethiopian will be genetically closer to a zulu than to a swede (not that a zulu is all that genetically different from a swede given that humans came close to extinction a while back and have little in the way of genetic diversity)

is the ethiopian the same race as the zulu or the swede

then there are the berber people of north africa. in appearance they vary from 'white' to 'black'. most of them have specific genetic markers in common - so a dna test can identify someone as being probably berber or of berber ancestry

what race do they belong to? does answering that on the basis of their skin colour alone make any sense whatsoever?

as an aside - i had a police officer explain to me why classifying suspects by race is very iffy, using my appearance as an example

he said that he would not describe me as white. but if he described me as black not everyone - including not every police officer - would think that the description fits, exactly

many police officers, faced with ambiguity, would describe as hispanic simply as a catch all category - but i do not look 'hispanic'

so getting to stuck on race in police work, at least, can cause problems

and too many police officers will describe as suspect as 'black male with a shaved head' and leave it at that. this description is about as useless as they get

[SpheresOfBalance]

Today's scientists look more towards epigenetics than they do genetics, as in fact that is indeed why there are differences between us, of common origin, in the first place. The earths surface is not homogenous, in terms of any elemental or electromagnetic force, or food/water source. The variables of the biosphere, thus geography, have indeed caused the variables in life.

Why then must man try and find better or worse in his kind, based upon any particular singular perspective, as if it's definitive of what all man should be; from some universal? Of course that's not his true aim, the universal perspective indeed, as its currently imaginary, unknowable and unreachable.

Instead in truth, it's from his self proclaimed belief, of what he is, projected upon others, as if he is the crowning achievement of random environmental impact. But again, from what perspective? From one of civility or impoliteness? From one of peace or anarchy? From one of erring to the side of caution or carelessness? From imbalance, or balance? From greed, or maybe generosity ? From selfishness or sacrifice? In fact the list goes on and on, what each individual may consider as more important than the next, that humans should aspire to, what crowning human achievement really is. Where they really get lost is in the defining process, of any particular concept.

Unfortunately, most often, it's based in fear/anxiety, thus the desire to control with power/physical might, today the weapon of choice being money, that glittering prize that sparkles in the reflection of a, all too often, mad mans eyes. Fear, that which currently defines the humanity of today.

But hopefully not tomorrow, if intellect and wisdom truly be our guide...

[Stuartp523]

but if he described me as black not everyone - including not every police officer - would think that the description fits, exactly

I suggest just forgetting for the moment everything you read in this thread so far and focus simply on this situation you describe. Would he be hesitant describing anyone as black, even if, for example, the person looked very much like Wesley Snipes? If not, then what is it about you that makes it so he would be hesitant to describe you as black and not the one who looks like Snipes?

[Sappho de Miranda]

Does racism make sense?

Technically no. Race is a social construct analogous to breeds as found in cats or dogs,' and 'ism' refers to a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement.'

Now, I don't know about you, but for the most part, humanity has been so mongrelized as to be almost impossible to formulate an 'ism' of any worth.

Therefore, it is safe to say that people are people irrespective of some kind of artificial social construct... with good, bad, ordinary and not so ordinary to be found across all cultures to which they find themselves.

Anyways... doubt that anyone would want to start identifying as breeds as genetics could... because it says nothing of the individual... and it's just damned offensive.

[Stuartp523]

It says exactly what it says about the individual, just as the knowledge that one is one's parents' child says exactly what it does. You may take from it what you will, and I know you don't, or at last claim not to, take anything from race, except supposedly shallow matters such as who has the right to pretend to be the victim and who must watch lest he expose his inherited privilege.

Unfortunately, for those who take this line of thinking to Muishkinian levels, seeing potential behind appearances that would otherwise imply none, they find that all people they associate with in life are just as likely to be, in appearance, dull, plain or ghastly, sickly, of ill temper, of few resources, or worse of all insensitive, as not.

Take, myself for example. On the outside, meaning based on everything one can possibly know about me through the senses, I appear to be so callous to the suffering of strangers that I would be just as happy if all victim groups were to no longer receive their unearned compensation, but a Muishkinian liberal must accept me as a friend, being that they don't know what I'm like beneath appearances - on the inside.

[Kayla]

I suggest just forgetting for the moment everything you read in this thread so far and focus simply on this situation you describe. Would he be hesitant describing anyone as black, even if, for example, the person looked very much like Wesley Snipes? If not, then what is it about you that makes it so he would be hesitant to describe you as black and not the one who looks like Snipes?

of course someone who likes like Wesley snipes would be described as black without much hesitation - because his appearance is closer to what is thought of as 'black' than is my appearance .

similarly someone described as having an enormous nose is different from me in the sense that i do not have what most people would describe as an enormous nose

not sure what you are getting at

if the police were to put out an apb for me the would probably get better results with 'weird looking girl with corn row hair' than with any reference to race

if you are trying to say that we can look at a person's skin color or nose size, and make a reasonable guess about their parents' skin color or nose size, no one in their right mind will disagree with you - although of course given how genetics works it is just a guess. my skin tone is darker than my parents' or my brothers and i tan for more easily than any of them.

but why are we arguing about classifying people by skin tone

maybe we should argue about classifying people by nose size

[Wyman]

I suggest just forgetting for the moment everything you read in this thread so far and focus simply on this situation you describe. Would he be hesitant describing anyone as black, even if, for example, the person looked very much like Wesley Snipes? If not, then what is it about you that makes it so he would be hesitant to describe you as black and not the one who looks like Snipes?

of course someone who likes like Wesley snipes would be described as black without much hesitation - because his appearance is closer to what is thought of as 'black' than is my appearance .

similarly someone described as having an enormous nose is different from me in the sense that i do not have what most people would describe as an enormous nose

not sure what you are getting at

if the police were to put out an apb for me the would probably get better results with 'weird looking girl with corn row hair' than with any reference to race

if you are trying to say that we can look at a person's skin color or nose size, and make a reasonable guess about their parents' skin color or nose size, no one in their right mind will disagree with you - although of course given how genetics works it is just a guess. my skin tone is darker than my parents' or my brothers and i tan for more easily than any of them.

but why are we arguing about classifying people by skin tone

maybe we should argue about classifying people by nose size

'weird looking girl with corn row hair'

Don't you hate it when you hear a stranger describe you; it's like hearing your voice on a recording. I used to get 'skinny white guy' a lot. But it's better than some of my colleagues who get 'bald guy with a goatee' or 'the heavy set one with a receding hairline' or worse 'the one with a big nose.'

Race is more relevant in the U.S I think because there is a distinct African-American culture that grew up, for better and worse, from slavery and Jim Crow. If you're not accepted in the dominant culture, you will create your own. Many good things came of it, such as (for instance, musically) jazz, blues and rock and roll. Racists will spin black culture in a negative light, but it's a glass half full/empty scenario - you'll see it according to your prejudices. There is just as much bad and good about every culture.

[SpheresOfBalance]

but if he described me as black not everyone - including not every police officer - would think that the description fits, exactly

I suggest just forgetting for the moment everything you read in this thread so far and focus simply on this situation you describe. Would he be hesitant describing anyone as black, even if, for example, the person looked very much like Wesley Snipes? If not, then what is it about you that makes it so he would be hesitant to describe you as black and not the one who looks like Snipes?

And why would anyone want to forget any particular part of the bigger picture, do not blinders, tunnel vision, limit ones vision, and thus the understanding of the biggest picture of them all, in essence the larger truth of the matter?