Explain heaven and hell?

[jackles]

ha .yeah i know that seems bizzare but that is fundermentaly the way things work heaven and hell wise but theres lots of in between stages or degrees of lostness from the nothing state.we loose our true identity which is nothing and end up thinking we are something.that somthing we think we are makes nothing feel like hell.sorry henry but dems the hard facts of heaven n hell.

[sjeff70]

Do we have any scriptures in mind or are we just discussing our beliefs?

[jackles]

yes well sometimes we have to give up our something existance to save the integrety of our nothing existance.love is no thing.god is love .heaven is love.heaven and god is indistinguishable.

[Mikejmeehan]

Sartre said hell is other people.

But, seriously, I'm disappointed by the number of people here (this is my first post) that just posit personal opinions as 'fact'. At the very least, preface your words with 'I believe that...' because all it is is an opinion. 'There's only 7 states of being' etc. Why? Who said so? Can you prove it or at least reference it?

Anyway, I believe that heaven and hell are human constructions and not real places, either physically or in any superstitious way. Primitive humans, as far as we know, did not believe in heaven and hell (though it didn't take long to invent supernatural explanations for physical phenomena...) and it's mainly the Abrahamic ones that still do. Anyone who posits that a heaven and/or hell exist has the burden of proof on them.

Mike

[jackles]

the simple answer is no nothing can be proved as you cannot prove nonlocal existance with what would have to be local means.may be with a double slit light duality ex.which proves consciousness observation can alter relative effects.

[cladking]

But, seriously, I'm disappointed by the number of people here (this is my first post) that just posit personal opinions as 'fact'. At the very least, preface your words with 'I believe that...' because all it is is an opinion. 'There's only 7 states of being' etc. Why? Who said so? Can you prove it or at least reference it?

I shouldn't have posted. I have lots of reason to believe the answer is 81' 3" and can even post a picture of heaven and describe in some detail how this all became confused but it's not entirely relevant in this thread. My theory flies in the face of religion, science, and even philosophy itself but proving it at this time when belief rules is difficult and very frustrating.

Ya' just can't get a simple fact in edgewise when everyone already knows everything and most of it is wrong.

I'll try to start a more appropriate thread soon.

[hammock]

The arse-backwardness of heaven and hell beliefs?

Hell = Presence of self and world. And all the tormenting needs and cravings of life. The addictive prison of consuming want and developing obligation whose walls the inmate organisms could easily escape, but don't wish to. Their perverse enjoyment of a continual oscillation from life's background noise of mental / physical pain to those fleeting episodes of illusory liberation from it. "Give us more," the billions moan in ecstasy, "You whip-wielding cosmic bastard, give us more desires and worries and carrot-leading goals, more barrels of dissatisfaction to bleed out into the streets!"

Heaven = Absence of self and world, including the precious sufferings above. Peace. Free at last, free at last in death. But what took you so long, pessimists and cynics, to appreciate the merits of eternal oblivion? Maybe because deep down you alone suspected... "Like all promised paradises, too good to be true," laughs the mad sadistic universe. "Welcome to generic consciousness, memory-less regeneration; ah, you assorted Western fools! Return yet again to the Far East's recycling chute of re-embodiment, no escape from peering through the port-holes of yet another need and habit enslaved skull! Bwahahahahaha...."

[Yon Yalvin]

[quote=Blaggard]Can you explain heaven or hell in a way that makes sense.[/quote]
I'll give it a try. It should be noted that I am an orthodox Christian believer. It doesn't seem like you've gotten many responses from people who believe in heaven and hell. I assume you are looking for an explanation from someone who actually holds these beliefs?

It should first be said that nearly every worldview holds to a functional "heaven", "hell", "sin", and "savior".

Heaven is the consummate state of humanity. Whatever it means for human life to become perfect and complete. What life is "supposed to be". This is heaven. Heaven can be seen in moments of life, joy, health, and happiness.

Hell is a state of perpetual imperfection and incompletion. It's more than this. Where heaven tends toward perfection and blessedness, hell tends toward destruction and misery. Hell is not what life is "supposed to be". Hell can be seen in moments of death, misery, sickness, and despair.

Sin is whatever creates hell and keeps humanity from heaven.

Savior is whatever eliminates sin, takes humans out of hell, and ushers in heaven.

Let's plug these concepts into some worldviews:

Atheistic Scientism (or Modernism)
Heaven - A human society on earth of perfect comfort and unity. No one has to die anymore. People live in a liberal democracy and are free to do as they wish to do. Justice is done. We've solved all the human problems of crime, disease, death, racism, war, etc... Utopia.

Hell - A lack of human society on earth. A tribalistic life of pain, war, conflict, disease, and early death. People live under oppressive governments. The world is full of injustice. Apocalyptic.

Sin - Ignorance. Intolerance. Religion. Things like that.

Savior - Knowledge, science, human ingenuity.

Here's the Christian worldview's assessment:

Heaven - Life with God.
Hell - Life without God.
Sin - Rebellion toward God.
Savior - Jesus Christ.

Obviously much more can be said, but hopefully this brings some definition to the basic concepts.

[BeyondTheAstral]

Can you explain heaven or hell in a way that makes sense.

It's very simple. They are illusions, fantastic realms, conceived to deal with the struggles and miseries of real, mundane life. They only make sense as consolation, as an opiate.

Exactly!

I like Homer Simpson's quote
I'm not a bad guy! I work hard, and I love my kids. So why should I spend half my Sunday hearing about how I'm going to Hell?

Something to ponder on - "As God is infinite - where is hell?"