Pride

[reasonvemotion]

Pride in excess can be regarded as imprudent, an immoral characteristic, or it can be seen as noble and upright. Aristotle considered pride as behavior showing high moral standards, yet both ancient Greek and biblical thought deplored what they referred to as "excessive pride or hubris".

Pride is often mistaken for arrogance, both appear as an inflated sense of self importance, though there is a real difference between the two. Pride is a logical evaluation of one's self, arrogance makes undue claims in an overbearing manner.

It is characteristic of the proud man not to aim at the things commonly held in honour, or the things in which others excel; to be sluggish and to hold back except where great honour or a great work is at stake, and to be a man of few deeds, but of great and notable ones. He must also be open in his hate and in his love (for to conceal one’s feelings, i.e. to care less for truth than for what people will think, is a coward’s part), and must speak and act openly; for he is free of speech because he is contemptuous, and he is given to telling the truth, except when he speaks in irony to the vulgar.
Nicomachean Ethics, Book 4

Is pride virtuous because one needs it to live.

Pride is essentially a "male" characteristic, like the peacock.

[WanderingLands]

I'd say that pride that's being expressed in a healthy way would be beneficial to Man, just as long as Man doesn't become too boastful as in to berate and sabotage others in wanting to cultivate their inner happiness and pride. The reason why I say pride is unfortunately synonymous only with 'arrogance' is because of the jealousy in people who feel that they haven't accomplished much or anything, so they decide to take it out on others to bring them down to a lower level under the guise of 'equality'. The answer to the question of pride would be: balance.

[reasonvemotion]

Jung's wife Ema wrote, What we women have to overcome in our relation to the animus is not pride but lack of self-confidence and the resistance of inertia. For us, it is not as though we had to demean ourselves, but as if we had to lift ourselves.

Pride in every form, point d’honneur and punctilio, however varied their kind or sphere, are at bottom nothing but this — anxiety about what others will say — and what sacrifices it costs! One can see it even in a child; and though it exists at every period of life, it is strongest in age; because, when the capacity for sensual pleasure fails, vanity and pride have only avarice to share their dominion. Schopenhauer

Now the proud man, since he deserves most, must be good in the highest degree; for the better man always deserves more, and the best man most. Therefore the truly proud man must be good. And greatness in every virtue would seem to be characteristic of a proud man. And it would be most unbecoming for a proud man to fly from danger, swinging his arms by his sides, or to wrong another; for to what end should he do disgraceful acts, he to whom nothing is great? If we consider him point by point we shall see the utter absurdity of a proud man who is not good. Nor, again, would he be worthy of honour if he were bad; for honour is the prize of virtue, and it is to the good that it is rendered. Pride, then, seems to be a sort of crown of the virtues; for it makes them greater, and it is not found without them. Therefore it is hard to be truly proud; for it is impossible without nobility and goodness of character. It is chiefly with honours and dishonours, then, that the proud man is concerned; and at honours that are great and conferred by good men he will be moderately Pleased, thinking that he is coming by his own or even less than his own; for there can be no honour that is worthy of perfect virtue, yet he will at any rate accept it since they have nothing greater to bestow on him; but honour from casual people and on trifling grounds he will utterly despise, since it is not this that he deserves, and dishonour too, since in his case it cannot be just. In the first place, then, as has been said, the proud man is concerned with honours; yet he will also bear himself with moderation towards wealth and power and all good or evil fortune, whatever may befall him, and will be neither over-joyed by good fortune nor over-pained by evil. For not even towards honour does he bear himself as if it were a very great thing. Power and wealth are desirable for the sake of honour (at least those who have them wish to get honour by means of them); and for him to whom even honour is a little thing the others must be so too. Hence proud men are thought to be disdainful.
Aristotle

[reasonvemotion]

If patriotism is pride in a nation’s ideals, it has meaning. If it simply means loving a country and its people because one was born there, Schopenhauer has something to say on that subject.

“The cheapest form of pride however is national pride. For it betrays in the one thus afflicted the lack of individual qualities of which he could be proud, while he would not otherwise reach for what he shares with so many millions. He who possesses significant personal merits will rather recognise the defects of his own nation, as he has them constantly before his eyes, most clearly. But that poor beggar who has nothing in the world of which he can be proud, latches onto the last means of being proud, the nation to which he belongs to. Thus he recovers and is now in gratitude ready to defend with hands and feet all errors and follies which are its own.”

Arthur Schopenhauer

"A proud man does not negate his own identity. He does not sink selflessly into the community.
Man should be conscious of his own value. Pride, writes Aristotle—a rational pride in oneself and in one’s moral character—is, when it is earned, the “crown of the virtues.”

[madera]

Pride in excess can be regarded as imprudent, an immoral characteristic, or it can be seen as noble and upright. Aristotle considered pride as behavior showing high moral standards, yet both ancient Greek and biblical thought deplored what they referred to as "excessive pride or hubris".

Pride is often mistaken for arrogance, both appear as an inflated sense of self importance, though there is a real difference between the two. Pride is a logical evaluation of one's self, arrogance makes undue claims in an overbearing manner.

It is characteristic of the proud man not to aim at the things commonly held in honour, or the things in which others excel; to be sluggish and to hold back except where great honour or a great work is at stake, and to be a man of few deeds, but of great and notable ones. He must also be open in his hate and in his love (for to conceal one’s feelings, i.e. to care less for truth than for what people will think, is a coward’s part), and must speak and act openly; for he is free of speech because he is contemptuous, and he is given to telling the truth, except when he speaks in irony to the vulgar.
Nicomachean Ethics, Book 4

Is pride virtuous because one needs it to live.

Pride is essentially a "male" characteristic, like the peacock.

"Pride cometh before the fall".

[reasonvemotion]

Madera wrote:

Pride cometh before the fall

Doom does not only mean that bad things can be expected, it is a pessimistic and defeatist attitude to think in this way, that all things come to an end, irrespective of whether or not they will. Schopenhauer's view on life, it is better not to have been born, all is suffering, humans are absurd, can only lead one to think his pessimistic philosophy is entirely defeatist and impassive, as is "pride cometh before the fall".

[madera23]

Madera wrote:

Pride cometh before the fall

Doom does not only mean that bad things can be expected, it is a pessimistic and defeatist attitude to think in this way, that all things come to an end, irrespective of whether or not they will. Schopenhauer's view on life, it is better not to have been born, all is suffering, humans are absurd, can only lead one to think his pessimistic philosophy is entirely defeatist and impassive, as is "pride cometh before the fall".

it may be pessimmistic to you,
but it is the truth like it or not.

[reasonvemotion]

Madera23 wrote:

it may be pessimmistic to you,
but it is the truth like it or not.

Pride is the logical evaluation of oneself. You are presenting the perfect example of the real difference between Pride and Arrogance, by demanding that I accept your response, simply on the grounds "because Madera23 says so" and there is no argument. Your emotional reaction to this tells me about your values, your needs and what this "truth" means to you, but without further explanation, I am not convinced you have a rational argument. Enlighten me.

[WanderingLands]

That person, madera23, is probably the same person as madera, considering that these two accounts have the same names except one has the number "23" added to it.

[Blaggard]

It's not a male characteristic it's a human characteristic to say otherwise would be to say women are somehow unable to experience or less able to or do so in a way that could not be defined it and that would be absurd, ok the way both sexes experience pride may be different but it's a human emotion, bringing sex into it is absurd.

[Blaggard]

"Pride cometh before the fall".

No it doesn't not in the Bible and hence nowhere it should actually matter if you use that quote: no matter how many times I see that misquoted it never gets old.

"Pride cometh before destruction, and a haughty spirit before the fall."

It's as Quoted that verbatum in the OT kind of but allowing for the lacksidaisicle transaltion of KJV aka KJC, allowing for the language in which it was written as.

That pride cometh before the fall thing is something else, more pride cometh before the sheer gall of misquoting Bible people who do so for who know's what reason, pride maybe? Pride comes in package even the itinerant, and sometimes settled peasants in the Old testament recognised, but apparently can't be recognised by those in modern times who misquote the Bible, for what reason who knows?

Makes you think really, have we ever really progressed?

"Pride goes before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. When pride comes, then comes shame: but with the lowly is wisdom."

Proverbs 11:2

Stick it in context for God's sake, if you are a Christian it behooves you to know something about your religion.

To put it in a simple language apart from the odd way the middle English spoke, it means this:

When pride comes, then comes often disgrace (might also be translated as dishonour but meh semantics), and to translate the next bit into non Bible gibberish: if you are haughty and of spirit and most often prideful you might expect destruction follows too, (and the most important bit), but with humility comes wisdom. English is an absurd language that often had the verbs about face, and then reversed them back, but that is the gist of it.

x years later pride is evil and one of the 89273589346538953268923 deadly sins, and never has any reason to exist. That's religion for you. It talks cavernous ass all the time throughout time, and the more you know about it and its history the more you see it. There's nowt wrong with being a Christian but it is not Christianity any more and you perhaps should have realised it sooner than I did as an atheist.

[madera]

"Pride cometh before the fall".

No it doesn't not in the Bible and hence nowhere it should actually matter if you use that quote: no matter how many times I see that misquoted it never gets old.

"Pride cometh before destruction, and a haughty spirit before the fall."

It's as Quoted that verbatum in the OT kind of but allowing for the lacksidaisicle transaltion of KJV aka KJC, allowing for the language in which it was written as.

That pride cometh before the fall thing is something else, more pride cometh before the sheer gall of misquoting Bible people who do so for who know's what reason, pride maybe? Pride comes in package even the itinerant, and sometimes settled peasants in the Old testament recognised, but apparently can't be recognised by those in modern times who misquote the Bible, for what reason who knows?

Makes you think really, have we ever really progressed?

"Pride goes before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. When pride comes, then comes shame: but with the lowly is wisdom."

Proverbs 11:2

Stick it in context for God's sake, if you are a Christian it behooves you to know something about your religion.

To put it in a simple language apart from the odd way the middle English spoke, it means this:

When pride comes, then comes often disgrace (might also be translated as dishonour but meh semantics), and to translate the next bit into non Bible gibberish: if you are haughty and of spirit and most often prideful you might expect destruction follows too, (and the most important bit), but with humility comes wisdom. English is an absurd language that often had the verbs about face, and then reversed them back, but that is the gist of it.

x years later pride is evil and one of the 89273589346538953268923 deadly sins, and never has any reason to exist. That's religion for you. It talks cavernous ass all the time throughout time, and the more you know about it and its history the more you see it. There's nowt wrong with being a Christian but it is not Christianity any more and you perhaps should have realised it sooner than I did as an atheist.

You people are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Woes to Scribes and Pharisees
…23"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. 24"You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 25"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-

[reasonvemotion]

madera and madera23 are you two different posters or the same one?

[reasonvemotion]

Blaggard wrote:

It's not a male characteristic it's a human characteristic to say otherwise would be to say women are somehow unable to experience or less able to or do so in a way that could not be defined it and that would be absurd, ok the way both sexes experience pride may be different but it's a human emotion, bringing sex into it is absurd.

What I meant is pride is usually synonyms with males, meaning it is more closely associated with the male, when mentioning pride, it calls to mind the male species. For example in A Treatise of Human Nature (1739) Hume compares the emotions felt by humans and a selection of animals and in a discussion concerning pride and humility refers to the swan, the turkey, the peacock. What might seem a little odd, given the modern turkey’s reputation for stupidity, is that Hume considers it to be one of the “nobler kind” and furthermore, that it is prideful because of its “beauty” (but only in the male). A woman is inclined to make herself appear submissive to the man, as men are predominantly leaders and have a natural tendency to take charge, show some muscle, whether it be body or mind, puff out their chests, scare away any possible suitors from the woman of their choice and prove their abilities to provide for a family, but things have changed. The rise of new families such as lesbianism, quells the need to depend on a male and a powerful female is a direct threat to manhood. Feminism poses the biggest threat to male survival and the Alpha male needs to re-emerge and assert himself, although sadly I think this rare breed of man is practically extinct.

[Arising_uk]

... and the Alpha male needs to re-emerge and assert himself, ...

Not much of a 'alpha male' then.

You think he'll be listening to advice, let alone a woman's?