Hey, You Liberals, the Power of Government Must be Limited

[thedoc]

Just curious, which is considered more barbaric? To put a bullet in someone's head, put them in a gas chamber where they go to sleep and then die. Or to stick a sword or bullet in their gut and let them die slowly, in agony. Prior to guns, violent death could be slow, guns just made death quicker, possibly more humane, that is if killing another person could ever be considered humane.

There are photos of American civil war battlefields where the casualties uniforms are pulled open around the belly, because the victim knew that if the wound was in the gut they were going to die in agony, rather than surviving if the wound was above or below they might survive.

[bobevenson]

Again, let me try to put Williams' point in perspective. In the 20th century, the consolidation of political power over vast numbers of people by a murderous tyrant was not a practical possibility in earlier centuries.

Qin Shi Huang, Temujin and Rome disagree with you and Williams.

How many people did they murder?

[Arising_uk]

How many people did they murder?

Personally? Quite a few I guess, its very debatable but heres an interesting site,

http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm

[bobevenson]

How many people did they murder?

Personally? Quite a few I guess, its very debatable but heres an interesting site,

http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm

That site shows 66 million killed in World War II and 40 million killed in China, but omits the 62 million killed by the Soviet Union. That's a total of 168 million, and those three figures alone make everything in the past look like a Sunday School picnic compared to the 20th century.

[Arising_uk]

That site shows 66 million killed in World War II and 40 million killed in China, but omits the 62 million killed by the Soviet Union. That's a total of 168 million, and those three figures alone make everything in the past look like a Sunday School picnic compared to the 20th century.

Depends, as a proportion of the respective populations? Still I'm not arguing that the C20th wasn't the worst, just that the premise you put forward is not enough to explain why as the past appears replete with consolidation of political power. More likely its a consequence of the advance of technology.

[bobevenson]

That site shows 66 million killed in World War II and 40 million killed in China, but omits the 62 million killed by the Soviet Union. That's a total of 168 million, and those three figures alone make everything in the past look like a Sunday School picnic compared to the 20th century.

Depends, as a proportion of the respective populations? Still I'm not arguing that the C20th wasn't the worst, just that the premise you put forward is not enough to explain why as the past appears replete with consolidation of political power. More likely its a consequence of the advance of technology.

The final paragraph of Williams' article address that point: We Americans ought to keep the fact in mind that Hitler, Stalin and Mao would have had more success in their reign of terror if they had the kind of control and information about their citizens that agencies such as the NSA, the IRS and the ATF have about us. You might ask, "What are you saying, Williams?" Just put it this way: No German who died before 1930 would have believed the Holocaust possible.

[Blaggard]

He's right in one way, The US is becoming far more fascist and controlling than it should be, it does seem to be trying to watch its citizens in a way that is really unnerving to anyone who has read 1984, whilst I am not on board with bobs usual hyperbole in many threads, he does make a point here I can agree with, it is an occurrence that has not happened in a while. I suppose liberals and libertarians do have something in common, the right to be free for both is sacrosanct, even if we don't agree on all of the finer points of what exactly that freedom entails...

[bobevenson]

I am not on board with bobs usual hyperbole in many threads.

I'm absolutely befuddled by that statement since I always say it like it is, no more, no less.

[Blaggard]

Like it is in your world bob, but it's an exaggeration to other people because you tend to use politics as a sort of launching board where facts fly so far beyond what they are, that they belly flop when gravity eventually takes over and you hit the water. I am sure you believe that what you say in your mind at least is just basically normal and unassuming, but what you say I think to most people is hyperbole sometimes, you have a knack for it.

[bobevenson]

Like it is in your world bob, but it's an exaggeration to other people because you tend to use politics as a sort of launching board where facts fly so far beyond what they are, that they belly flop when gravity eventually takes over and you hit the water. I am sure you believe that what you say in your mind at least is just basically normal and unassuming, but what you say I think to most people is hyperbole sometimes, you have a knack for it.

Well, as I've said before, I have three launching boards: spiritual, political and economic, and all divinely-inspired.

[Blaggard]

"Lead by a bottle more like!"

The Life of Brian.

[bobevenson]

"Lead by a bottle more like!"

If you're talking about ouzo, you're absolutely correct. As it says in Revelation 8:11, "And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." Ouzo is a substitute for absinthe, without the wormwood.