A chat with a philosophical layman about Ethics

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: A chat with a philosophical layman about Ethics

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

prof wrote:In the following discussion the letter E will stand for: Ethicist – by which is meant ‘a teacher of Ethics’ – perhaps a professional who gets paid to teach it; or a researcher in the field. And the letter L will symbolize ‘a philosophical layman.’

E: Do you mind if I talk theory for a moment?

L: No, go ahead.

E: You’ve heard the expression “to live a moral life.” What do you suppose it means? What does it mean to live a moral life?

L: I dunno. You tell me.

E: It means Be true to yourself. Shakespeare, in the year 1510, knew the truth of this. He said: To thine own self be true… Yet how does one be true?
By having some good principles; and living up to them ! Okay?

L: Okay. I'll go with that.

E: Logically, the question then arises: What makes a principle a good one? How can we tell what a good moral principle is?

L: How?

E: Good question! You have a healthy curiosity!! What makes a principle a good one? Well, it’s richer in values than other principles and it fulfills its purpose. So you might ask: What’s the purpose of a principle? And I would answer: A good set of principles helps us live harmoniously with other people – both in our family and in society. It enables us to avoid quarrels even before they start. It shows us how to get along with other members of our human species; how to have sweeter cooperation to solve our problems. Can we agree that a principle that does that is “a good” one?

L: Yeah. I guess so. You're telling me that to live a moral life we need to have some high principles and put them into practice.

E: Exactly !! You get it. That's what I mean if I use the term "morality." Earlier I mentioned the feature “richer in value” when we were discussing how to tell the difference among principles. That’s how we tell something is better: it has more qualities than what you are comparing it with, doesn’t it? A good moral principle would have everything a moral principle should have. …It would put people first – over things and stuff. And it would give a higher priority to things and material than it would give to numbers and passing thoughts of the mind. Good principles show us which way is “up.” They help us get our priorities straight. Okay?

L: Yes.

E: You're right. Once we have a good set of moral principles we know that all the systems and ideologies in the world aren't worth one material thing; and all the things in the world aren't worth one human life !
Any questions? Do you see why we should care about living a moral life? How do you feel about all this? -- I’m listening…..

--------

E: So let's go beyond theory now, and I'll ask you a practical question:
Do you want a better quality of life than you have now? ...Here's one way to get it ...

As Pete Demerest, a wise man, once told us: ""Beyond survival, the goal is to thrive – to go beyond just staying alive and to increase quality of life. Since your brain is already wired to think in terms of creating value, you've already got what it takes. All you need are the keys to help you take full advantage of how your brain naturally works so you make better decisions and take more effective actions more often." I have to agree with him. He's right.

And I would add this: If we can master our mind, perhaps we can think, learn, and act in new and better ways.

We know, in our hearts, that we can't truly maximize the quality of our own lives unless we maximize the quality of other people's lives as well. From this perspective, quality of life -- and life itself -- is not just about 'my own narrow self'; it’s about all of us. Life is fundamentally about creating value and our conscience knows it! So let's figure out how to create more and better value! And let's put policies into effect that do that! What do you think?





Comments? Critiques? Concepts? Suggestions?
Prof, first and foremost, I'd like to say that I love your tenacity in truthfully trying to enlighten the ignorant, to the world of philosophical thought as it pertains to ethics. You are a man after my own heart. But the truth of the matter is that life, as others have tried to point out, makes it only good on paper. And Indeed it is!!! Unfortunately the current state of affairs is such that there is much forced inequality amongst men, due to fear and ignorance, such that your paper hasn't much of a chance to do much good. Sure the already enlightened, of relative degree, shall read and see the beauty of your attempt, and it is. And I beg you to not take to heart, the words of the fearful ignorant, as they know not what they do!

Once we can get rid of mans greed, humanity shall be ready for your paper. Right now the human is just too much animal, not capable of understanding the truthful whys and hows of itself, let alone the brilliance and truth of such thoughts you've put down on paper.

Thanks for being you, the glimmer of hope that you are, as well as all that are like you!

Edit: typo
Last edited by SpheresOfBalance on Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by henry quirk »

"ground zero"

Let me get this straight: if I'm willing to use atomics, but am unwilling to be at ground zero at detonation, I'm a coward?

Is that right, (you) SoB?

See: from my perspective, if I'm willing to use atomics, but am unwilling to be at ground zero at detonation, that's just me bein' 'sensible'.

*shrug*
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Re:

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

henry quirk wrote:"ground zero"

Let me get this straight: if I'm willing to use atomics, but am unwilling to be at ground zero at detonation, I'm a coward?

Is that right, (you) SoB?

See: from my perspective, if I'm willing to use atomics, but am unwilling to be at ground zero at detonation, that's just me bein' 'sensible'.

*shrug*
Exactly, you know not your psyche, until you do, you'll not understand where you're wrong!
You use the word "sensible" in the place of "cowardice" because you fear it!
And yes, I'm a SOB ;-)

And the "*shrug*" is perfect here, par for your apparent course.
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Post by henry quirk »

So much verbiage just to tell me to 'fuck off'.

Here, let me show you how it's done...

Fuck off.

Concise, direct, unambiguous.

Thus endth the lesson.
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Re:

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

henry quirk wrote:So much verbiage just to tell me to 'fuck off'.

Here, let me show you how it's done...

Fuck off.

Concise, direct, unambiguous.

Thus endth the lesson.
Yet those words you reference say nothing of any real consequence, while mine do!
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me: done kickin' cripples for the day.

Post by henry quirk »

"mine do!"

It stomps its feet, indignant its genius is unrecognized.

:oops: for you.
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Re: me: done kickin' cripples for the day.

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

henry quirk wrote:"mine do!"

It stomps its feet, indignant its genius is unrecognized.

:oops: for you.
Genius is your folly, we are all equal! Some are just too stubborn or fearful to listen.
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Re: A chat with a philosophical layman about Ethics

Post by prof »

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
prof wrote:... Be true to yourself. ... Yet how does one be true?
By having some good principles; and living up to them !
What makes a principle a good one? Well, it’s richer in values than other principles and it fulfills its purpose. So you might ask: What’s the purpose of a principle? And I would respond: A good set of principles helps us live harmoniously with other people – both in our family and in society. It enables us to avoid quarrels even before they begin. It shows us how to get along with other members of our human species; how to have sweeter cooperation to solve our problems. ... to live a moral life we need to have some high principles and put them into practice....

A good moral principle would... put people first – over things and stuff. ... Good principles show us which way is “up.” They help usget our priorities straight.

... Once we have a good set of moral principles we know that all the systems and ideologies in the world aren't worth one material thing; and all the things in the world aren't worth one human life !

... ""Beyond survival, the goal is to thrive – to go beyond just staying alive and to increase quality of life. Since your brain is already wired to think in terms of creating value, you've already got what it takes. All you need are the keys to help you take full advantage of how your brain naturally works so you make better decisions and take more effective actions more often."

... I would add this: If we can master our mind, perhaps we can think, learn, and act in new and better ways. ... We know, in our hearts, that we can't truly maximize the quality of our own lives unless we maximize the quality of other people's lives as well. From this perspective, quality of life -- and life itself -- is not just about 'my own narrow self';... So let's figure out how to create more and better value! And let's put policies into effect that do that! What do you think?
Comments? ...
Prof, first and foremost, I'd like to say that I love your tenacity in truthfully trying to enlighten the ignorant, to the world of philosophical thought as it pertains to ethics. You are a man after my own heart. But... the current state of affairs is such that... your paper hasn't much of a chance to do much good. [due to] the fearful ignorant, as they know not what they do!

Once we can get rid of mans greed, humanity shall be ready for your paper. ...
Hi, Spheres

YWe would be better off if we took the concept "impossible" out of our language. It sounds like you are telling me that my push for ethics is impossible. Let's be careful not to throw cold water on someone's worthwhile project.
You do deserve credit for recognizing that the enlightened folks would see value in what I write. And you do say later:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:Thanks for being you, the glimmer of hope that you are, as well as all that are like you!
so I thank you for those kind words, and your graciousness and perspicacity.

I shall go on educating those who are receptive, those who have open minds to new ideas, and who care deeply about the future of the human race. Those who are reflexive fault-finders or who are mentally rigid won't listen, or will feel threatened by novel ideas. I write for those who appreciate it, like you.

I know a guy who read my booklet BASIC ETHICS twice because he wanted to squeeze every drop of meaning out of it, he loves learning! He believes the project is important. He is a futurist, and thinks in an interdisciplinary way; he has a wide scope of interests. Another gentleman who works as a full-time self-improvement coach, commented, after reading it over carefully, "Good job!!" I wrote the paper for them. http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf
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Post by prof »

..
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thedoc
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Re: A chat with a philosophical layman about Ethics

Post by thedoc »

Let's see, would I be willing to use atomics, but not be at ground 0 when they go off? Yep, I'd rather watch from a distance to see what effect it had on those I don't like. That way if I don't get everyone, I can send another one to finish the job. One thing I've learned a few years ago is that I should always finish what I start, even if that was not my intention, but was just accused of it.

BTW, suicide bombers are not brave or courageous or anything like that, just stupid.
Last edited by thedoc on Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

Post by thedoc »

SpheresOfBalance wrote: while mine do!

What did you say again, I must have missed it.
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Re: A chat with a philosophical layman about Ethics

Post by Blaggard »

I am not willing to use atomics, or be at ground zero when they are not used, does that make me a genius. ;)

I've got to say and kudos to all involved I have never seen a thread go so far from it's original topic so quickly and I think we should take a moment to acknowledge the collective lunacy of all people posting on this thread. Amen.
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Post by henry quirk »

Doc,

:wink:

#

Blaggard,

No, just -- perhaps -- compassionate.
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Re: A chat with a philosophical layman about Ethics

Post by Blaggard »

Hmm I can live with that. ;)
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Re: A chat with a philosophical layman about Ethics

Post by thedoc »

Blaggard wrote:I am not willing to use atomics, or be at ground zero when they are not used, does that make me a genius. ;)

I've got to say and kudos to all involved I have never seen a thread go so far from it's original topic so quickly and I think we should take a moment to acknowledge the collective lunacy of all people posting on this thread. Amen.
Hey! I'm right here, ya know?
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