Politics. Lies.

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
User avatar
skakos
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:22 pm
Location: Athens, Greece
Contact:

Politics. Lies.

Post by skakos »

Image

Britain cut off Kuwait from Iraq as a "separate state".
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq%E2%80 ... _relations]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vantage]
Iraq reacted.
Iraq invaded.
We all think Iraq is the "bad" guy.

Image

US trained Osama bin Laden.
US stopped being in need of Osama.
We think Osama is the "bad" guy.
We killed Osama.
His body never found... (like Hitler's...)

Oh how distorted is our view of the world...
Blaggard
Posts: 2245
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:17 pm

Re: Politics. Lies.

Post by Blaggard »

You forgot operation Ajax a nice little CIA backed coup d'etait that overthrew Iran's democratically elected parliament and installed a shah so that they could gain valuable oil concessions for the British government, (essentially Iran were threatening to withdraw the huge subsidies to British oil) heading British Petroleum now known as BP, was none other than Winston Churchill who would see the UK renege on several deals with several countries. more particularly the British promised Trans-Jordan Palestine to Feisal who was then head of what would become Jordan you can watch the history of this in the Film Lawrence of Arabia if you have a mind to know what really went on; when the 1st world war broke out, famously backing out in what is known as the Balfour treaty where they secretly promised the land in order to gain French allies; the influx of Israeli Zionists could not be contained and shortly after the second world war the UN implemented the two state solution. You can see why some people are facking furious about the shenanegans of the world powers. Incidentally Palestine or Palestinians were not invited to attend the vote on the two state solution, and interestingly England abstained, Turkey said hell no and most of the other states in the area voted against it. Unfortunately though a lot of countries voted to have a two state solution, hence the mess the area is in now. The immigrants at the time of the two state solution numbered perhaps less than 10% of the regions population, the rest of which were of semitic non Jewish descent. ;)

Incidentally all of the nations in The Middle East are semitic so anti semitism is a rather ironic term, with the only exception being Iran who are Persian and of Moghal or Mongol if you prefer, descent for the most part from the steppes of Russia and beyond, I am sure you know the history of Temujin, aka Genghis Kahn.

Nations that are or were part of the semitic world:

Akkadians (Assyrians/Syriacs and Babylonians), Ahlamu, Amalekites, Ammonites, Amorites, Arameans, Chaldeans, Canaanites, Eblaites, Dilmunites, Hebrews (Israelites, Judeans and Samaritans, Jews), Edomites, Ethiopian Semites, Hyksos, Arabs, Nabateans, Maganites, Maltese, Mandaeans, Mhallami, Moabites, Phoenicians (including Carthaginians), Shebans, Sabians, Ubarites and Ugarites.

The Carthaginians were from North Africa, and also known as the Phoenician Empire, and Philestines and so on by the way. You may remember the punic wars between Carthage and Rome, Hanibal and so on. And indeed the Romans gave the name Palestine to the region because of the Philistines who lived there, although formerly after the conquests of Israel. :)

Click on the blue text to read about Ajax. ;)
The 1953 Iranian coup d'état, known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup, was the overthrow of Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh and his cabinet on 19 August 1953, orchestrated by the United Kingdom (under the name 'Operation Boot') and the United States (under the name TPAJAX Project).[3][4][5][6]

Mossadegh had sought to reduce the semi-absolute role of the Shah granted by the Constitution of 1906, thus making Iran a full democracy, and to nationalize the Iranian oil industry, consisting of vast oil reserves and the Abadan Refinery, both owned by the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, a British corporation (now BP).[7][8][9] A military government under General Fazlollah Zahedi was formed which allowed Mohammad-Rezā Shāh Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran (Persian for an Iranian king),[9] to effectively rule the country as an absolute monarch according to the constitution. He relied heavily on United States support to hold on to power until his own overthrow in February 1979.[7][8][9][10] In August 2013 the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) admitted that it was involved in both the planning and the execution of the coup, including the bribing of Iranian politicians, security and army high-ranking officials, as well as pro-coup propaganda.[11][12] The CIA is quoted acknowledging the coup was carried out "under CIA direction" and "as an act of U.S. foreign policy, conceived and approved at the highest levels of government." [13]

In 1951, Iran's oil industry was nationalized with near-unanimous support of Iran's parliament in a bill introduced by Mossadegh who led the nationalist party the National Front. Iran's oil had been controlled by the British-owned AIOC.[14] Popular discontent with the AIOC began in the late 1940s: a large segment of Iran's public and a number of politicians saw the company as exploitative and a central tool of continued British imperialism in Iran.[7][15] Despite Mosaddegh's popular support, Britain was unwilling to negotiate on its single most valuable foreign asset, and instigated a worldwide boycott of Iranian oil to pressure Iran economically.[16] Initially, Britain mobilized its military to seize control of the Abadan oil refinery, then the world's largest, but Prime Minister Clement Attlee opted instead to tighten the economic boycott[17] while using Iranian agents to undermine Mosaddegh's government.[18] With a change to more conservative governments in both Britain and the United States, Winston Churchill and the Eisenhower administration decided to overthrow Iran's government though the predecessor Truman administration had opposed a coup.[19] Classified documents show British intelligence officials played a pivotal role in initiating and planning the coup, and that AIOC contributed $25,000 towards the expense of bribing officials.[20]

Britain and the U.S. selected Fazlollah Zahedi to be the prime minister of a military government that was to replace Mosaddegh as premier. Subsequently, a royal decree dismissing Mosaddegh and appointing Zahedi was drawn up by the coup plotters and signed by the Shah. The Central Intelligence Agency had successfully pressured the weak monarch to participate in the coup, while bribing street thugs, clergy, politicians and Iranian army officers to take part in a propaganda campaign against Mosaddegh and his government.[21] At first, the coup appeared to be a failure when on the night of 15–16 August, Imperial Guard Colonel Nematollah Nassiri was arrested while attempting to arrest Mosaddegh. The Shah fled the country the next day. On 19 August, a pro-Shah mob paid by the CIA, marched on Mosaddegh's residence.[22] According to the CIA's declassified documents and records, some of the most feared mobsters in Tehran were hired by the CIA to stage pro-Shah riots on 19 August. Other CIA-paid men were brought into Tehran in buses and trucks, and took over the streets of the city.[23] Between 300[1] and 800 people were killed because of the conflict.[2] Mosaddegh was arrested, tried and convicted of treason by the Shah's military court. On 21 December 1953, he was sentenced to three years in jail, then placed under house arrest for the remainder of his life.[24][25][26] Other Mosaddegh supporters were imprisoned, and several received the death penalty.[9]

After the coup, the Shah ruled as an absolute monarch for the next 26 years (under what he called a "guided democracy")[8][9] while significantly modernizing the country using oil revenue, until he was overthrown in the Iranian Revolution in 1979.[8][9][27] The tangible benefits the United States reaped from overthrowing Iran's elected government included a share of Iran's oil wealth[28][clarification needed] and the prevention of the possibility that the Iranian government might align itself with the Soviet Union, although the latter motivation produces controversy among historians. Washington continually supplied arms to the increasingly unpopular Shah and the CIA-trained SAVAK, his repressive secret police force;[9] however by the 1979 revolution, his increasingly independent policies resulted in his effective abandonment by his American allies, hastening his downfall.[29] The coup is widely believed to have significantly contributed to anti-American sentiment in Iran and the Middle East. The 1979 revolution deposed the Shah and replaced the pro-Western absolute monarchy with the largely anti-Western authoritarian theocracy.[30][31]
Incidentally the US also built both of Iran's nuclear reactors, and the Germans supplied the engineers to build their enrichment facilities. Because Iran uses oil in their power stations, and of course oil is far too valuable a commodity to burn in power stations, incidentally the only other country to use oil burning power stations is Iraq. The new reactor they are building is sorely needed so Iran can save its oil assets and become a stable economic force in the region. Added to that fact is the IAEI International Atomic Energy Agency, a wing of the UN charged with regulating the development and use of nuclear power, has no problem with nuclear power used for peaceful purposes such as in power stations, and that Iran is the only country ever to face sanctions based on their treaties. France sold Israel its nuclear weapons too by the way, which they deny actually having, although the French are quite honest about the deals, and have gone on the record as saying they sold several weapons systems to the Israeli government. The US also attempted to hijack the enrichment facilities using a virus to infiltrate Iranian computers and shut them down, the attempt was only partially successful. The CIA recently admitted that Iran had no plans to build nuclear weapons and even if it had it is 30 years away at least from the technology required. In fact Iraq were closer to the technology but of course these WMDs were mysteriously non existant when UN peace keepers moved in... ;)

The US are such monumental hypocrites, it beggars belief. ;)

The middle east is a shit hole of political turmoil because of Western powers need for oil both during the two world wars and after. And frankly their actions since haven't exactly been a paragon either. ;)

Politics you wouldn't piss on it if it was on fire. ;)

The US sold weapons to both the Iranians (I am sure you are well aware of the Oliver North/Raegan scandal in which apparently neither of them could tell a lie, but were pretty much talking cavernous ass) and lets not forget the Mujahadin which would later become the Taliban, were supplied copiously by the CIA with weapons as well, in the Afghan wars with Russia, weapons which are now being used on their own troops. I suppose karma is a harsh mistress...
User avatar
skakos
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:22 pm
Location: Athens, Greece
Contact:

Re: Politics. Lies.

Post by skakos »

Indeed. The history of US politics if full of such brilliant cases of insight and vision... :lol:
Blaggard
Posts: 2245
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:17 pm

Re: Politics. Lies.

Post by Blaggard »

skakos wrote:Indeed. The history of US politics if full of such brilliant cases of insight and vision... :lol:
LMAO: yeah and I live in England, imagine how I feel, actually don't it's not a good idea... ;)

I blame the Greeks you are the nutters who came up with democracy. ;) j/k

Actually in all seriousness and all joking aside, how is it going over there for you guys atm, we read the news papers, but they seldom really tell us the truth. We genuinely are concerned for Greece, although having said that we would quite calmly kill that Greek idiot who married the Queen. Mind you say the word atm and a million people would quite happily kill parliament... ;)
Skip
Posts: 2818
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: Politics. Lies.

Post by Skip »

Oh how distorted is our view of the world...
We will never know. All world-views are distorted.
Every leader of every nation has deceived and manipulated - and sometimes attacked - his own people. Every population has fallen for con-men, despots and false messiahs.
So, what's new here?
What do you want to discuss?
Impenitent
Posts: 5774
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Politics. Lies.

Post by Impenitent »

what is history?

his-story?

peace, love, dope...

gird your loins

-Imp
User avatar
HexHammer
Posts: 3353
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 8:19 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Politics. Lies.

Post by HexHammer »

Some agentcies postulates that Osama was already dead long before "he was shot dead by usa", it was all just a hoax.

Iraq invaded Quwait because Quwait screwed Iraq over (long story which I can't remember, as I'm an old feeble man), but since USA are best friends with those who has most oil, they ofc sides with Quwait.

Sadam was hailed as the bad guy at the 2nd Iraq war, but he's only guilt was having much oil that US needed to they blamed him for 9/11 when that didn't really hit the spot, they blamed him for having weapons of mass destruction, that neither wen't really well with evidense, so in the end the pretext boiled down to running out of patience with UN inspectors and having a liberation war (highly illegal war)

Sadam was even back in the days helped by US to power, he gassed alot of Kurds very known to US, but they gave some billions to him anyways, but now in 2nd Iraq war they used that as a pretext to war.

USA lies their asses off, it's very tragic that so many naive people believe in all of USA's lies.
User avatar
Arising_uk
Posts: 12259
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

Re: Politics. Lies.

Post by Arising_uk »

skakos wrote: Iraq reacted.
Iraq invaded.
We all think Iraq is the "bad" guy.
You forget that 'Iraq' is also pretty much a western construct.

But it does appear that Saddam was used as a fall-guy for both Russia and America in their games with Iran and Saudi.
US trained Osama bin Laden.
US stopped being in need of Osama.
We think Osama is the "bad" guy.
We killed Osama.
His body never found... (like Hitler's...)

Oh how distorted is our view of the world...
You make him too much of a puppet. Osama was the product of Saudi fundamentalism forged in 'schools' and tempered in the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. He just took advantage of the CIA funding, support and training under the old-adage - the enemy of my enemy. The irony is that he offered to kill Saddam as they were ideologically opposed.
Blaggard
Posts: 2245
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:17 pm

Re: Politics. Lies.

Post by Blaggard »

Iraq was "invented" by the UK. Just a point of order...
British Mandate and Kingdom
Main articles: Kingdom of Iraq (Mandate administration) and Kingdom of Iraq (1932–58)
British troops in Baghdad, June 1941.

On 11 November 1920 Iraq became a League of Nations mandate under British control with the name "State of Iraq". The British established the Hashemite king, Faisal, who had been forced out of Syria by the French, as their client ruler. Likewise, British authorities selected Sunni Arab elites from the region for appointments to government and ministry offices.[specify][33][page needed]

Faced with spiralling costs and influenced by the public protestations of war hero T. E. Lawrence in The Times, Britain replaced Arnold Wilson in October 1920 with new Civil Commissioner Sir Percy Cox. Cox managed to quell the rebellion, yet was also responsible for implementing the fateful policy of close cooperation with Iraq's Sunni minority.[34] The institution of slavery was abolished in the 1920s.[35]

Britain granted independence to the Kingdom of Iraq in 1932, on the urging of King Faisal, though the British retained military bases and transit rights for their forces. King Ghazi ruled as a figurehead after King Faisal's death in 1933, while undermined by attempted military coups, until his death in 1939. Ghazi was followed by his underage son, Faisal II. 'Abd al-Ilah served as Regent during Faisal's minority.

On 1 April 1941, Rashid Ali al-Gaylani and members of the Golden Square staged a coup d'état and overthrew the government of 'Abd al-Ilah. During the subsequent Anglo-Iraqi War, the United Kingdom invaded Iraq for fear that the Rashid Ali government might cut oil supplies to Western nations because of his links to the Axis powers. The war started on 2 May and an armistice was signed 31 May.

A military occupation followed the restoration of the pre-coup government of the Hashemite monarchy. The occupation ended on 26 October 1947. The rulers during
I refer everyone to the post I made earlier. ;)

AKA Babylon, just as Iran is AKA Persia. The political divisions are intrinsic and senseless, basically Western powers wanted the vital resources in the area, so they made machievellian plans to get them which ended up with the stunningly stupid mess in the ME we have today.

And of course the CIA claimed Iran was in danger of becoming communist at the times of Russian ingress into Afghanistan, another massive pile of bs in a massive pile of bs political nonsense that to this day continues to be a massive pile of nonsense. ;)

And so the US sold weapons to the Iranians, to the Afghani rebels known as the Mujahadin; England is not without blame, hell we sold weapons to both sides at once, in the Iraq-Iran war I am not saying the world is run by the Illuminati of course, more the Inebriati, after all parliament are often drunk as lords. ;)

What amazes me is that people actually think there is some sort of ethics in politics of the 20th century, really it was just an extension of the robber Baron politics of European Renaissance and hence the Middle ages and hence the dark ages, when we lost Roman control and descended into sensible politics for at least 5 minutes, well I say sensible but given history there isn't much sense to be found anywhere in any politics. ;)
User avatar
skakos
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:22 pm
Location: Athens, Greece
Contact:

Re: Politics. Lies.

Post by skakos »

Blaggard wrote:
skakos wrote:Indeed. The history of US politics if full of such brilliant cases of insight and vision... :lol:
LMAO: yeah and I live in England, imagine how I feel, actually don't it's not a good idea... ;)

I blame the Greeks you are the nutters who came up with democracy. ;) j/k

Actually in all seriousness and all joking aside, how is it going over there for you guys atm, we read the news papers, but they seldom really tell us the truth. We genuinely are concerned for Greece, although having said that we would quite calmly kill that Greek idiot who married the Queen. Mind you say the word atm and a million people would quite happily kill parliament... ;)
Life for Greeks is better than you might think. Sure things are getting worse from an economic perspective, but we haven't stopped going out or having fun. Most of the times some news are exaggerated for the same of TV ratings....

Democracy is wrong. Aristotle considered it a bad version of politiocracy.
[Politiocracy: The people rule and decide based on what is best for the state]
[Democracy: The people rule and decide based on what is best for the PEOPLE - That is almost NEVER good for the state as a whole and this is WHAT HAPPENS AT GREECE in the last 20 years...]
Post Reply