Why Shouldn't Putin Take Over the Crimea?

[Blaggard]

Use your head. If 100% of the people in Texas voted to become a part of Mexico again, do you think the U.S. government would allow it?

Yeah bob I actually do think they would allow it. Democracy is like that, it's why you have a country, when you fought the British for the right to govern you won, so how is that not going to happen hence?

"The most serious attempt at secession was advanced in the years 1860 and 1861 as eleven southern states each declared themselves seceded from the United States and joined together to form the Confederate States of America. This movement collapsed in 1865 with the defeat of Confederate forces by Union armies in the American Civil War." -Wikipedia

Again bob you are not making sense, what is your point?

[bobevenson]

My point, my friend, is that the only way a state can secede from the United States is through bloodshed, and the only way Crimea can secede from Ukraine is through bloodshed, although Putin's genius may be able to accomplish it without a single shot being fired.

[Blaggard]

My point, my friend, is that the only way a state can secede from the United States is through bloodshed, and the only way Crimea can secede from Ukraine is through bloodshed, although Putin's genius may be able to accomplish it without a single shot being fired.

Or he could of just done it much more simply by letting democracy take it's course. You seem to value Putin over common sense, he's now in a world of pain over common sense.

Which my friend is my point and was voice of times point, and was very much a better point than Putin's which was damned idiotic.

The problem is not whether Crimea should be under Russia or not, but that Russian militarily invaded Crimea. This unacceptable behaviour. If Russia wanted Crimea, it would have to press for a referendum in a different manner. Then Crimeans can choose, and it can happen more smoothly.

It is said that it's highly likely that the majority would like to end up in Russia because of Russian descent and because Ukraine is a poor country whereas Russia have oil and gas to fuel its economy. However, there's also the problem with those who don't want to end up in Russia, and how many of those there could be in Crimea could problematize the situation, as where are they to go? Most likely to Ukraine, but although nobody is probably bringing up this suggestion, my personal suggestion would've been to split Crimea up into 4 entities that would vote separately, such that if anyone of them has a majority pro-Ukraine that part wouldn't end up on the wrong side.

And the Soviet Union does not equal Russia. Ukraine was also part of the Soviet Union, but doesn't make it Russian.

VOT for president. j/k

Damn it that joke would of worked much better if voice of time's name would have had and E on the end, still jokes are funny aren't they?

[bobevenson]

As of today, Putin seems to be getting his way without anybody getting shot. Now I ask you, my friends, can you possibly dispute my contention that Putin is a political genius?

[Blaggard]

As of today, Putin seems to be getting his way without anybody getting shot. Now I ask you, my friends, can you possibly dispute my contention that Putin is a political genius?

Yes. Might does not not has it ever made right.

[bobevenson]

As of today, Putin seems to be getting his way without anybody getting shot. Now I ask you, my friends, can you possibly dispute my contention that Putin is a political genius?

Yes. Might does not not has it ever made right.

I'm not talking about right or wrong, I'm talking about being a political genius, as opposed to American presidents who not only don't accomplish their foreign policy objectives, but wind up getting thousands upon thousands of people shot in vain.

[Blaggard]

As of today, Putin seems to be getting his way without anybody getting shot. Now I ask you, my friends, can you possibly dispute my contention that Putin is a political genius?

Yes. Might does not not has it ever made right.

I'm not talking about right or wrong, I'm talking about being a political genius, as opposed to American presidents who not only don't accomplish their foreign policy objectives, but wind up getting thousands upon thousands of people shot in vain.

If you define political genius as alienating the whole world then yes I can see why you like Putin, you probably thought the sun shined out of Bushes ass too.

[bobevenson]

Stick to the point, is Putin a political genius or not? As far as alienating the world, American presidents top the list.

[Blaggard]

Stick to the point, is Putin a political genius or not? As far as alienating the world, American presidents top the list.

No he is not he is an ass, for the reasons I already gave. VOT expressed why he is making it hard for himself, Crimea could have had the same result by democracy.

Actually I think the British monarchy and its prime ministers are way ahead of America, although not recently, France and Spain probably a close second...

[bobevenson]

Stick to the point, is Putin a political genius or not? As far as alienating the world, American presidents top the list.

No he is not he is an ass, for the reasons I already gave. VOT expressed why he is making it hard for himself, Crimea could have had the same result by democracy.

If Albert Einstein had been an ass, that would have had absolutely nothing to do with his scientific genius. In the same way, it doesn't matter if Putin is the biggest son-of-a-bitch on the planet, that's got absolutely nothing to do with his political genius. And again, Ukraine wouldn't allow the secession of Crimea regardless of the popular vote.

[Blaggard]

Stick to the point, is Putin a political genius or not? As far as alienating the world, American presidents top the list.

No he is not he is an ass, for the reasons I already gave. VOT expressed why he is making it hard for himself, Crimea could have had the same result by democracy.

If Albert Einstein had been an ass, that would have had absolutely nothing to do with his scientific genius. In the same way, it doesn't matter if Putin is the biggest son-of-a-bitch on the planet, that's got absolutely nothing to do with his political genius. And again, Ukraine wouldn't allow the secession of Crimea regardless of the popular vote.

Yeah ok but Albert Einstien revolutionised science, I don't thing Putin's mangled attempts at war mongering and generally pissing off the rest of the world are going to revolutionise politics any more than Hitler or Stalin did...

You are of course more than welcome to your opinion bob, but I don't think it is one that will be shared my many potentiates in many countries.

I think he's kinda ficked up and for the reasons I and VOT, already gave.

[bobevenson]

Yeah ok but Albert Einstien revolutionised science, I don't thing Putin's mangled attempts at war mongering and generally pissing off the rest of the world are going to revolutionise politics...

Again, none of that has anything at all to do with being a genius.

[Blaggard]

Yeah ok but Albert Einstien revolutionised science, I don't thing Putin's mangled attempts at war mongering and generally pissing off the rest of the world are going to revolutionise politics...

Again, none of that has anything at all to do with being a genius.

Erm I think it does...

Putin's warmongering is probably going to set back a process that could have happened in decades, centuries. Genius it is not. If you want to cite genius Russian Premieres I'd go for Gorbachev for getting that crazed yank Reagan around a table and ending the cold war. Putin is a hard man of politics, but not a very adroit man of politics.

[bobevenson]

Putin is a hard man of politics, but not a very adroit man of politics.

What the hell are you talking about? I would say that getting Crimea away from Ukraine without firing a shot is about as adroit as it gets.

[Blaggard]

Putin is a hard man of politics, but not a very adroit man of politics.

What the hell are you talking about? I would say that getting Crimea away from Ukraine without firing a shot is about as adroit as it gets.

Lol one must admire your political naïvety bob.

As well as your complete disregard for actual events.

Putin has never really been a good politician, he's a bit of turd sandwich which history will out.

Ratings, polls and assessments


Putin's approval (blue) and disapproval (red) ratings during his eight-year presidency.

According to public opinion surveys, Putin's approval rating was 81% in June 2007, and the highest of any leader in the world.[237][238] In January 2013, his approval rating fell to 62%, the lowest point since 2000 and a ten-point drop over two years.[239] Observers see Putin's high approval ratings as a consequence of the significant improvements in living standards and Russia's reassertion of itself on the world scene that occurred during his tenure as President.[240][241] One analysis attributed Putin's popularity, in part, to state-owned or state-controlled television.[242] A 2005 survey showed that three times as many Russians felt the country was "more democratic" under Putin than it was during the Yeltsin or Gorbachev years, and the same proportion thought human rights were better under Putin than Yeltsin.[242]

Putin was Time magazine's Person of the Year for 2007.[243] In April 2008, Putin was put on the Time 100 most influential people in the world list.[244]

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev credited Putin with having "pulled Russia out of chaos",[245] but has also criticized Putin for restricting press freedom and for seeking a third term in the presidential elections. Putin's press spokesman responded to this criticism by saying Gorbachev "was basically responsible for the dissolution of his country".[246]

Criticism of Putin has been widespread especially over the internet in Russia,[247] and it is said that the Russian youth organisations finance a full "network" of pro-government bloggers.[248] In the U.S. embassy cables published by WikiLeaks in late 2010, American diplomats said Putin's Russia had become "a corrupt, autocratic kleptocracy centred on the leadership of Vladimir Putin, in which officials, oligarchs and organised crime are bound together to create a virtual mafia state."[249][250] Putin called it "slanderous".[251]

By western commentators and the Russian opposition, Putin has been described as a dictator.[252][253] Putin biographer Masha Gessen has stated that "Putin is a dictator," comparing him to Alexander Lukashenko of Belarus.[254][255] Former UK Foreign Secretary David Miliband once described Putin as a "ruthless dictator" whose "days are numbered."[256] U.S. Presidential candidate Mitt Romney called Putin "a real threat to the stability and peace of the world."[257]

In the fall of 2011, the anti-Putin opposition movement in Russia became more visible, with street protests against allegedly falsified parliamentary elections (in favor of Putin's party, United Russia) cropping up across major Russian cities. Following Putin's re-election in March 2012, the movement struggled to redefine its new course of action

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