Constitutionality of New Anti-Homosexuality Law (in US)

[Blaggard]

Then hetrosexuality is a choice as well. How do you account for homosexuality in young males who have access and acquaintance with women? Is it just that we all can be bi-sexual and its social and cultural mores that make the choice?

Reproducuction is a biological imperitave. Heterosexuality is just the flip side of homosexuality. Bisexual is the same boat ride. Real sexuality isn't able to be categorized. Its a sacred, beautiful thing, and always leads to the same outcome:procreation. Yes, I think social and cultural mores play a huge part - right from birth.

It also it seems is partly genetic and it exists in almost all animal species, 1 in 10 male goats are gay, fruit flies can be gay or straight according to the pheremones they experience, not to mention the world famous penguins who are gay touted by evangelists and creationists as the perfect couple until they found out both were male. Rats can turn gay and cannibalistic when they reach certain critical populations. The list is endless.

In humans of course the source of the gay is mysterious, it does seem though that the more male children a woman has, the more chance they are likely to be gay, and this happens even in famillies that are seperated at birth there are links I can post if you want to see the extensive research in this area it's apparently to do with hormone levels in the womb. This seems like an evolutionary benefit to me, where too many males spoil to broth. Also women are far more likely to be bisexual, than men are, which also makes sense in evolutionary terms. Also women who have gay siblings tend to have more children, suggesting the genes or phenotype is more productive, and is about sexual attraction to men rather than the obvious gay gene idea thing. I doubt being gay is purely a choice, but I do think some people are born with a very much skewed genome that will make them far more likely to be gay, it is a spectrum though. I am sure we have met people we would of swore were gay and yet are straight and vise a versa.

Saying homosexuality is a choice these days is not only ignorant, it's about 80 years behind where science is on the issue.

I'm pretty sure Iran and Saudi Arabia are more restrictive since being gay or indulging in gay sex can earn you the death penalty, so no the US is not the most bigoted nation out there, probably just the most bigoted in certain states; of the Western world perhaps, although don't quote me on that I have not done the research. As has been mentioned it has some of the most liberal legal laws on homosexuality of the Western world so it's hard to sum the US up as a nation of bigots, based on right wing religious nuts or whatever half assed conservative lobby groups want to make up next.

This documentary by the liberal tree hugging "right" wing is quite funny...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4

By Michael Moore, whatever your opinion of him it is quite a good overview if a little narrow in it's target.

If you are feeling oppressed if you have no one else to turn to then you just might need The Gay Team, the soddomobile is just priceless.

Incidentally as most right thinking people think the Westboro Baptists are cranks here's just one of their quotes in context.

God laughs at the wicked paraphrasing a little bear with me

Psalms 2:4

Psalm 2 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

2 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Now what does that have to do with gay people and further more since Psalms and Leviticus are Jewish laws for Jewish people not gentiles, why are you still quoting them as if somehow they are Christian values? There was a new Messiah he came not to break the laws but to make new laws that all mankind might receive, but I am pretty much bemused by the attitude of Christians who refuse to love their neighbour regardless. If Jesus himself said being gay was evil you might have a point, but I think only his latter day saints (pardon the pun) had that agenda, hence you have to say cannon should be fired from a canon if it disagrees with the Son of God...

[Bernard]

Well the actual word 'gay' comes from early years of Australian settlement when men way out-numbered women and the 'gay boy' was employed for certain services. To typify him; he was low testosterone and effeminate, for want of a better word. Sydney is still a gay Capitol. Just google mardi gras 2014 Sydney. I am 5th gen oz Irish my parents both came from large families. Im one of nine, and have 4 myself. No gays I know off patrilinealy or matrilinealy, but three of my fathers brothers who werent genetically disposed toward making more progeny ended up in the priesthood. I have had not a few friends here who considernthemselves gay but not homosexual. Typically, the more high 'fruiting' progeny are found in the middle of a run of children.

So, yes, there is more possibility of being funnelled into a particular way of life according to genetic strengths and weaknesses, but social order dictates what those ways of life are - even for flies. Culture is as powerful as genes, so I find it a moot point whether nurture or nature is cause. Tolerance is the key.

Males are losing sperm count in a hurry, due to lack of will in the species to create high volume of children in a hurry (need to create high population increase after plague, drought, war, famine). I see it as natural that same sex are choosing to live together as a result, but this is not because of increased sexual attraction in same gender. Sure, it means change of behaviour which itself affects DNA but I don't ever see non-functional activity ever being favoured ahead of a functional one on the chemical level or on the complete physical level - I am referring to the biological mechanics of sex. Perhaps we will ended up cloning ourselves, but that would not require testosterone driven males anymore or the sex act. That's the only sort of evolutionary path I can see overtaking the traditional reproductive one we are used to.

As an aside, plant reproduction is fascinating and another source of insight into what DNA can do in terms of altering behaviour.