The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not -

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Yes!
YES!



I was in a mathmatics class. YOU have a GREAT memory.


I would love to recreate the experience.
If there is another time for me, I would like to think I could take my self farther. Take my self more out-of-the-way.

I keep searching for a similar experience
again.


Nothing else matters to me.
Nothing else matters.




I appreciate you posting here.






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Image






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Arising_uk
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



Yes!
YES!



I was in a mathmatics class. YOU have a GREAT memory.
Yours is very poor if you think so.

I would love to recreate the experience.
If there is another time for me, I would like to think I could take my self farther. Take my self more out-of-the-way.

I keep searching for a similar experience
again.


Nothing else matters to me.
Nothing else matters.
You delude yourself. As I've already told you that NLP has techniques to assist you in recreating such things, as states of being are never forgotten, but you ignored my words. Why you did this I think is obvious as you supplied the answer yourself, you got scared the first time and lost the state. So I think pretty much everything you say you've done so far has just been posturing to avoid confronting that issue. That you think you can make-up for it by denigrating a subject you have no knowledge of, i.e. anglo-american philosophy, is a symptom of your past experiences with your guru who filled your head with nonsense about what western philosophy has said and done, i.e. it's not a search for enlightenment a la the eastern practices. As such I will oppose your nonsense and delusions until you find a way to talk sense about them in a way that would benefit others, until then you're just another gnu to me.
I appreciate you posting here.[/size]
kma.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Perhaps you are right. I will look at NLP.



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Ginkgo
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Ginkgo »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



YES! You are exactly correct.


I was amazed that I could actually conceive a type of thread such as this and then, in addition, be able to express this turn-around of the responsibility and consequence upon the observer and not necessarily upon the original poster.


Thank you for getting this and expressing what, actually, earlier, I wanted to reveal.



...I'm unsure of the other member's analysis of me. Take that upon yourself.






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Image





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That's ok Bill. It just seem a logical consequence of your statement. The other logical consequence of you position,i.e. putting responsibility back on the reader or the image viewer, comes in the form of an impendence on your part. That being that any person who does not participate is not doing legitimate philosophy.

This is why I introduced the fallacy of argumentum ad consequentiam.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Perhaps you could look at it that way...if you choose.


Along the same lines, however you choose to look at something is beyond me. No matter what the subject.


We exist in a multidimensional continuum.

No matter what the subject, all aspects, all viewpoints, from black to white and all shades of gray in-between must exist.


I can support my shade of gray but in the end you must feel comfortable with your perspective, your shade. I know I can't change you or your shade. Nor do I wish to.






................................................Image





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Ginkgo
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Ginkgo »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Perhaps you could look at it that way...if you choose.


Along the same lines, however you choose to look at something is beyond me. No matter what the subject.


We exist in a multidimensional continuum.

No matter what the subject, all aspects, all viewpoints, from black to white and all shades of gray in-between must exist.


I can support my shade of gray but in the end you must feel comfortable with your perspective, your shade. I know I can't change you or your shade. Nor do I wish to.


...
[Image removed by AMod for aesthetic reasons]

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Fair enough. The only problem I had was with the the idea there is only one legitimate philosophy.
AMod
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by AMod »

Everyone,
Please when replying to Bill Wiltrack could you edit out the image-links as it just clutters the thread with unnecessary space. Unless of course your reply concerns the actual image(but even then).
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Ginkgo
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Ginkgo »

AMod wrote:Everyone,
Please when replying to Bill Wiltrack could you edit out the image-links as it just clutters the thread with unnecessary space. Unless of course your reply concerns the actual image(but even then).
Amod

No problem, will do.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Philosophy, real philosophy should be plumbed by the use of self-consciousness.

Self-consciousness and possibly an even a higher consciousness is the only thing that separates us from any other living thing.


Now, if you just want to talk, spend a lifetime of just talking to no end, enjoy a multitude of authors that do not incorporate consciousness into their theories and arguments.

If you understand the value of becoming more self-conscious and wish to increase or deepen those feelings, perhaps real philosophy is for you.

It's your path.


I'm just stating that the study of consciousness, with the goal of increasing self-consciousness, is the sole factor in determining the difference and the relevance of the discipline of philosophy.





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mattsidedish
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by mattsidedish »

I'm done both reading and posting to these few threads created by mister gnu. If you use terms that don't really have a clear interpretation and use it in a way that subtexts a particular interpretation on your part, then fail to provide some sort of explanation, justification, or logic to make your point, then you have facilitated the epitome of an "illegitimate philosopher" in my book.

If you make an assertion with absolutely no basis or logic to make it worth anyone's time, then there is no need for concern of your point of view. I feel this point has been thoroughly made and is the belief of some other readers here. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Whether someone agrees with you or not, you have no place in a discussion if you don't have a point. If you legitimately don't have any explanations, logic or justification for believing the opinions that you have, then you have irrationally formed acquired them, and thus, shouldn't make assertions based on them.

LOL "Don't be an ass." You seem to be a well established poster, if not a competent one. Perhaps a good read over the rules would be in order. Then come back here and tell me where it says we aren't allowed to "be an ass." I've been respectful of your point of view. I don't agree with it not because I understand it, but because I can't. I can't understand it because you've given NO reason to understand it. Pushing that responsibility on me to understand your point should and can only be made when you've given sufficient explanation of it. You have not done so.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Most individuals are not prepared, nor will they ever be prepared, to take even the beginning step in tasting the dicipline of self-consciousness in the form of a philosophy.

It does not bode negatively upon you.


It's all good.


Take care.




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Arising_uk
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:Most individuals are not prepared, nor will they ever be prepared, to take even the beginning step in tasting the dicipline of self-consciousness in the form of a philosophy.
Ever the cry of the gnu, "It's your lack of will-power that's at fault, not my 'teachings'.".

Discipline - FTFY.
It does not bode negatively upon you.
But it certainly reflects badly upon you.
It's all good.
No, it's not. What a delusional little bubble you live in.
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Arising_uk
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:Perhaps you are right. I will look at NLP.
Doubt it but if you do don't look go and do, as it's a doing thing.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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I will adopt these methods and ingrain them into my life.



...just a bit hard to initially get-behind this program when I see:



Neuro-linguistic programming
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) is an approach to communication, personal development, and psychotherapy created by Richard Bandler and John Grinder in California, United States in the 1970s.

Its creators claim a connection between the neurological processes ("neuro"), language ("linguistic") and behavioral patterns learned through experience ("programming") and that these can be changed to achieve specific goals in life. Bandler and Grinder claim that the skills of exceptional people can be "modeled" using NLP methodology, then those skills can be acquired by anyone.

Bandler and Grinder also claim that NLP can treat problems such as phobias, depression, habit disorder, psychosomatic illnesses, myopia, allergy, common cold and learning disorders, often in a single session.

NLP has been adopted by some hypnotherapists and in seminars marketed to business and government.


Reviews of empirical research find that NLP's core tenets are poorly supported.

The balance of scientific evidence reveals NLP to be a largely discredited pseudoscience. Scientific reviews show it contains numerous factual errors, and fails to produce the results asserted by proponents.


According to Devilly (2005),[19] NLP has had a consequent decline in prevalence since the 1970s. Criticisms go beyond lack of empirical evidence for effectiveness, saying NLP exhibits pseudoscientific characteristics, title, concepts and terminology as well.

NLP is cited as an example of pseudoscience when teaching scientific literacy at the professional and university level. NLP also appears on peer reviewed expert-consensus based lists of discredited interventions.

In research designed to identify the "quack factor" in modern mental health practice, Norcross et al. (2006) list NLP as possibly or probably discredited for treatment of behavioral problems.

Norcross et al. (2010) list NLP in the top ten most discredited interventions and Glasner-Edwards and Rawson (2010) list NLP therapy as "certainly discredited".





Why
do you like this so much?


What do you think or feel that it has done for you?





Do you have a specific doctrine or chapter, that you specifically like, that you could share here & now?



When do you initially experience NLP and, at that time, what did it do for you?




What experiences, from your past life, can you bring back?




What else has NLP changed in your life & what has it allowed you to do?



Do you view yourself as an exceptional person?






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Arising_uk
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Re: The Argument That Philosophy, True Philosophy, Does Not

Post by Arising_uk »

*Yawn* We've already been down this track Bill. Still,
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.I will adopt these methods and ingrain them into my life. ...
Unlikely as it would actually involve you having to walk the talk. You know, I can really understand why you like this idea of just observing oneself as it pretty much means you don't actually have to do anything.
...just a bit hard to initially get-behind this program when I see:[/size]

Neuro-linguistic programming
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopaedia


Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) is an approach to communication, personal development, and psychotherapy created by Richard Bandler and John Grinder in California, United States in the 1970s.

Its creators claim a connection between the neurological processes ("neuro"), language ("linguistic") and behavioral patterns learned through experience ("programming") and that these can be changed to achieve specific goals in life. Bandler and Grinder claim that the skills of exceptional people can be "modeled" using NLP methodology, then those skills can be acquired by anyone.

Bandler and Grinder also claim that NLP can treat problems such as phobias, depression, habit disorder, psychosomatic illnesses, myopia, allergy, common cold and learning disorders, often in a single session.

Snake phobia cured in one session pt1
Snake phobia cured in one session pt2

NLP has been adopted by some hypnotherapists and in seminars marketed to business and government.
True and guess what topic was found as common ground between my brother and Bill Clinton.
Reviews of empirical research find that NLP's core tenets are poorly supported.
...
:lol: And lo' an' behold CBT arrived upon the Psychotheraputic scene soon after.
Why do you like this so much?
Because currently it's still the best of the bunch out there and has a useful set of techniques to aid communication and change.
What do you think or feel that it has done for you?
Here's a good example, your words show that you equate thinking as feeling, which does explain you. Where you make an error is that others may not think this way and as such they won't hear your message. Still, just for you. I know what it has done for me, it has, when required, given me an epistemology and a pedagogy with a set of techniques that allows me to, if I wish, change beliefs and behaviours, in myself and others.
Do you have a specific doctrine or chapter, that you specifically like, that you could share here & now?
Not really as it's a doing thing not a reading thing but I would say that there are a lot of bandwagon books out there and if anyone is really interested then they should just read Frogs into Princes and The Structure of Magic I & II to get the gist and see if it piques their interest, it certainly did mine.
When do you initially experience NLP and, at that time, what did it do for you?
I think you meant 'did'. It was back in the late 80s, just happened upon Frogs into Princes in my local library. Didn't actually find anywhere to learn the techniques until the late 90s when I happened to see a course in London so signed-up. I've already told you above what it did for me.
What experiences, from your past life, can you bring back?
Any ones I wish to change.
What else has NLP changed in your life & what has it allowed you to do?
When I wish, its changed how I interact with people and how I set and achieve goals or outcomes.

It's allowed me to help a couple of friends with situations they wished to change and allowed me to change a situation with my ex-wife.
Do you view yourself as an exceptional person?[/size]
Depends, relative to whom? But when the need arises I can be not shabby.

See how one can be a gnu with answers Bill, try it some time.
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