Is tribalism the most enduring heritage from the past?

[Ned]

Just look at history and recent political events.

The world is broken up to 196 countries, never mind the myriads of tribal sub-groups in each individual country.

It is the same species, on the same planet, easily intermixable with each other as immigration statistics show.

However, as long as individuals carry their tribal identity, instead of their species-identity, with them, there will always be wars, massacres and atrocities.

The ‘leaders’ take full advantage of this by sicking one tribe against the other, convincing their ‘subjects’ that the ‘other’ is subhuman, evil, dangerous, out to get you.

All this would be impossible if people realized that we are, for all practical purposes, one tribe: we want to live our limited life on this planet, in peace, being productive, looking after our families and friends.

Until people realize that they are primarily human beings, all in the same boat, instead of members of a besieged sub-group somewhere defending their territory tooth and nail, they will be always at each other’s throats.

And our masters laugh all the way to the bank.

[Impenitent]

history never repeats.

-Imp

[Ned]

Sorry, Imp, history does nothing but.

Nothing substantial ever changes -- only in degrees and then the cycle starts again.

We are still the same cavemen with nuclear weapons this time around.

Civilization is a very thin veneer.

[spike]

I disagree that Civilization is a very thin veneer. On the contrary, it has a very tough veneer.

Civilization makes it own veneer. It gets thicker as it moves on.

And we are not all of the tribal mentality as you suggest, Ned.

The tribalism we are witnessing most exists in the Middle East. Civilization is not too happy about this. Civilization detests tribalism. The upheavals we are witnessing in the Middle East is Civilization's struggle to bring it into modernity and end tribalism.

[Ned]

You don't have to go far to observe tribalism in our midst.

American 'patriotism' is a prime example.

The jingoism can be quite nauseating sometime.

Then there are the fundies in the US south who are one closely knit tribe, then there is the Israel lobby and many, many other subgroups who identify with each other and suspect everyone else.

I read it somewhere that each civilization embraces the morality it can afford.

When things go sower, morality goes out the window and we are cavemen again.

Things that used to be unthinkable just yesterday (torturing, internal spying, incarceration without due process, etc) suddenly become common practice.

After WW2 Japanese soldiers were prosecuted (by American tribunals) for abusing prisoners by water-boarding. Now it is an openly embraced technique by the US military -- it is called 'enhanced interrogation'.

Don't tell me that civilization is a thick veneer.

[spike]

Civilization has a very thick veneer. That's what binds humanity.

You are confusing tribalism with 'special interests'.

[Ned]

You are confusing tribalism with 'special interests'.

No confusion at all.

They are exactly the same.

The exact same mentality: us against all the others.

[marjoramblues]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/n ... ent-karzai

Stoning will not brought back into new legislation ...but it was seriously considered and in draft form.
Only dropped due to international outcry.

But then...read on...

...the stoning of women adulterers needs no legislation, it is already allowed under Shariah Law...

the law applies to men too - but mostly it is women who receive the punishment...

shelters for battered women described as brothels...

[Ned]

Civilization has a very thick veneer. That's what binds humanity.

Yes, and 'enemy combatants' need to be tied to a board before they can be tortured by fake drowning. I guess that is also part of the thick veneer?

Sorry guys, but we are on our way back to the middle ages.

The cycles I mentioned before.

[spike]

I think you are to young to know better.

[Ned]

I think you are to young to know better.

I am sure you meant "too young".

Is that your logical argument?

As far as my age is concerned, I suggest you look at my introduction post to this forum.

However, age is neither here nor there.

[marjoramblues]

N: Just look at history and recent political events.
M: Looking and agreeing up to a point. Trouble is we tend to hear and react only to the bad news.
The good news hardly gets a mention.
A bit like here, really.
Very rarely do people get positive feedback to any considered posts; but the minute there is a word outta place...down the bricks fall.
People like to argue and be right, according to their special interests.
Pretty much all I have to say.
[the End]

[spike]

Ned, thanks for paying attention.

[spike]

Sorry guys, but we are on our way back to the middle ages.

Such a remark comes from ignorance or youth, or just taking a stab in the dark with no foundation.

[Impenitent]

Sorry, Imp, history does nothing but.

Nothing substantial ever changes -- only in degrees and then the cycle starts again.

We are still the same cavemen with nuclear weapons this time around.

Civilization is a very thin veneer.

really?

gird your loins.

-Imp