Your OWN personal morality

[Ned]

Not what you think a universal morality ought to be, not one of the officially approved moralities (of church or state or any other group of humans) but the morality that YOU live by, your own personal conviction guiding your everyday life.

If you have one that you are aware of, that you are ready to explain to each other.

It would be interesting to see how many of us have clearly identified moral principles and how these principles help us live our lives.

I guess I might as well add my own here.

I am old, my life is almost over, and I have to look back to see what it has been about.

My answer is multifold.

- Develop my potentials as much as I could
- Worship the beauty of this world I was born into
- Worship the power of the human mind to see truth
- Share as much of it as possible with my fellow travelers
- Help those who were not as fortunate as I have been.

In this life there is no room for violence, hate, political systems, ideologies, envy, greed, gluttony, power-seeking, brutality.

I look upon the world as a ONE: one planet, multiple living species, one of which is mine. I want to share and share equally, both with humans and with other life forms.

I know that it is not possible, but in my mind I live in that world and behave as if I was actually living in that world.

I am not part of any sub-groups – I am a human being living my limited life on this one Planet and trying to make the most of it.

I would never knowingly work in an environment that produces harmful things.

When I go to the store and buy food, I get something from people who worked hard to give me something I need to keep me alive, keep my body healthy and well fed.

I OWE them something in return.

What I owe them has to be equally nourishing to them, equally beneficial to them, to their children, to others.

I know, EVERYTHING can be justified on some level and has been justified, from the beginning of history. By war, by self-defense, by righting a wrong, by purifying a race, by revenge, by god, by the 'marketplace', by group-loyalty.

Justifications are dime a dozen.

Now I can get involved in the justification game – or I can just get out of the entire game and say: “I will do no harm”.

I want to be able to look into the mirror every morning and say, with clear conscience: today I am giving those people something in return -- something that doesn't need justification: food for their table, fixing their plumbing, educating their kids, music, poetry, woodcarving, telling them the truth on Forums.

[thedoc]

'Honesty' is a good place to start.

[marjoramblues]

What is a personal morality?
And how well can it work within a society with other 'personal' moralities?

Right away you are into the realms of identity, own sense of well-being and potential accusations of selfishness.
First, let me say, I have no problems with 'selfishness' if it means looking after one's own interests; it is only when this is at the expense of others that the problems arise. And that is when own personal morality can be side-lined, challenged by societal or Higher Authority moralities.

So, how do we come by our own personal morality?
If we have already been guided by our upbringing and special people; moral precepts from holy, self-help or philosophy books - then they can be reappraised.

Review any moral rules so that they make sense and are useful in developing well-being.
Examine any accusations against you of being 'immoral' and that you will burn in hell or destroy Society for believing/acting as you do.

So, what is basic to having a personal morality?
Knowing who you are and what you want will help. A useful morality would be based on personal values; the uniqueness that is you.

I try to act in ways so that I can live with myself. Ways which will bring some kind of a balance both physically and mentally.

If I know that the negative consequences of my actions will outweigh the positives, and still carry through, then hell mend me.

Outcomes can't always be predicted, I can't have an absolute rule for every single situation.
Therefore, what do you think is the The Big Golden Rule ?

[marjoramblues]

Ned: I am not part of any sub-groups.

M: What are the sub-groups you are not part of?

[marjoramblues]

Ned: It would be interesting to see how many of us have clearly identified moral principles and how these principles help us live our lives.

M: Yes it would.
Also, those who self-describe as amoral - what principles do they live by ?
Given that this is a philosopher's paradise, is there a particular pik'n'mix of past and present Thinkers which have provided a useful 'best' way to live your life, or the basis for one ?
What is your own personal amorality

[Brit Dems]

Not what you think a universal morality ought to be, not one of the officially approved moralities (of church or state or any other group of humans) but the morality that YOU live by, your own personal conviction guiding your everyday life.

If you have one that you are aware of, that you are ready to explain to each other.

It would be interesting to see how many of us have clearly identified moral principles and how these principles help us live our lives.

I guess I might as well add my own here.

I am old, my life is almost over, and I have to look back to see what it has been about.

My answer is multifold.

- Develop my potentials as much as I could
- Worship the beauty of this world I was born into
- Worship the power of the human mind to see truth
- Share as much of it as possible with my fellow travelers
- Help those who were not as fortunate as I have been.

In this life there is no room for violence, hate, political systems, ideologies, envy, greed, gluttony, power-seeking, brutality.

I look upon the world as a ONE: one planet, multiple living species, one of which is mine. I want to share and share equally, both with humans and with other life forms.

I know that it is not possible, but in my mind I live in that world and behave as if I was actually living in that world.

I am not part of any sub-groups – I am a human being living my limited life on this one Planet and trying to make the most of it.

I would never knowingly work in an environment that produces harmful things.

When I go to the store and buy food, I get something from people who worked hard to give me something I need to keep me alive, keep my body healthy and well fed.

I OWE them something in return.

What I owe them has to be equally nourishing to them, equally beneficial to them, to their children, to others.

I know, EVERYTHING can be justified on some level and has been justified, from the beginning of history. By war, by self-defense, by righting a wrong, by purifying a race, by revenge, by god, by the 'marketplace', by group-loyalty.

Justifications are dime a dozen.

Now I can get involved in the justification game – or I can just get out of the entire game and say: “I will do no harm”.

I want to be able to look into the mirror every morning and say, with clear conscience: today I am giving those people something in return -- something that doesn't need justification: food for their table, fixing their plumbing, educating their kids, music, poetry, woodcarving, telling them the truth on Forums.

Are you a White person?

[Ned]

Are you a White person?

What has pigmentation got to do with it?

[Impenitent]

Thrasymachus was right

-Imp

[Ned]

Machiavelli too?

[henry quirk]

When I go to the store and buy food, I get something from people who worked hard to give me something I need to keep me alive, keep my body healthy and well fed.

I OWE them something in return.

What I owe them has to be equally nourishing to them, equally beneficial to them, to their children, to others.


What you owe them is money.

[Ned]

What you owe them is money.

Regardless, how I acquired the money in the first place?

If I stole it, or killed for it, you still think I would have paid off my debt?

[thedoc]

What you owe them is money.

Regardless, how I acquired the money in the first place?

If I stole it, or killed for it, you still think I would have paid off my debt?

Along with a 'Universal Morality' are you also arguing for some kind of 'Universal Responsibility'? So Joanne gets knocked up and I'm now responsible for helping her out financially, does that also mean I have visitation rights to the kid if I want, or have a say in whether she gets an abortion or not, just because she's too lazy, or too much of a party animal to take responsibility for the child?

The reality is that you clean up your own mess and don't expect others to do it for you. Didn't you ever raise a child and teach them to clean their own room, if not you need to join the human race.

Oh, and you have certainly paid the debt for the food, but not to the source of the money, that is a separate issue and should not be used to confuse the other exchange.

[henry quirk]

Ned,

Let's say I own and operate Quirk's Books.

Let's say you come in for a copy of sumthin'.

I have the book on the shelf and price it at X.

You have X.

I give you the book, you give me X.

Transaction complete.

I could not care less where you got X (earned it, stole it, whatever).

Now, let's say instead you come into my bookstore to rob me, to get X so that you can buy drugs, or put gas in your car, or get milk for your poor baby.

In that case: I'm not carin' 'why' you (try to) rob me...I'm thinkin' only of how I can preserve my life AND keep a grip on what's mine (X, in my cash register).

You may very well make off with X....I may very well make you eat shot from my twelve-gauge...again: at no point am I carin' about 'why' you're tryin' to steal from me.

My point: you wanna codify some web of connection wherein I should give a rat's ass about where you get your cash AND 'why' you may want to rob me when -- really -- I just wanna transact with you and protect what's mine (life and cash).

Certainly: as a function of your personal morality, you can burden yourself with all manner of 'shoulds', but some (many, most) don't wanna bother (and won't be bothered) by all that 'web of interdependence' hooey.

[Ned]

...and you guys are surprised about the world going to hell in a handbasket?

[henry quirk]

Not me!

The world 'is' what it 'is': I like it this way.

What does surprise me: the number of naive folk who get all wrapped up in 'shoulds'.