If you never heard of God, would you ever think of it?

[Ned]

Or do you mean, "Given your *actual* experiences, plus a hypothetical world in which there are no religions, would those *actual* experiences cause you to speculate about a possible God?

Yes, that's what I mean.

As I tried to explain before: I was reexamining my own personal experiences and asked myself: had I been born in that hypothetical world, could any of my experiences make me wonder if there was anything beyond science.

My answer is: NO.

I never had a 'religious' experience and I am wondering if those who claim to have had them were influenced by the concepts handed down to them by their culture.

Of course this is a question impossible to answer with any certainty, but I meant it as an exercise in imagination.

Try to imagine growing up in a world where nothing beyond science and technology was ever taught to you. You also had a teacher who explained that we are the dominant species on this planet, with a vast amount of knowledge already acquired about the world, but there are many, many unknowns and we may never know all the answers. Our source of information is our sensory organs and our reasoning minds, but there may be almost infinite number of phenomena out there that we are not even equipped to observe/sense/understand. But it is all right, we don't need to have all the answers, it is enough to use our tools (senses, mind, instruments) to expand our knowledge and learn more and more about our world.

When I try to imagine growing up in a world like that, I feel I would have been completely contended and would not have found a need to find a shortcut to 'final' answers.

I guess this is the best I can do to clarify my meaning.

[Hjarloprillar]

Or do you mean, "Given your *actual* experiences, plus a hypothetical world in which there are no religions, would those *actual* experiences cause you to speculate about a possible God?

Yes, that's what I mean.

As I tried to explain before: I was reexamining my own personal experiences and asked myself: had I been born in that hypothetical world, could any of my experiences make me wonder if there was anything beyond science.

My answer is: NO.

I never had a 'religious' experience and I am wondering if those who claim to have had them were influenced by the concepts handed down to them by their culture.

Of course this is a question impossible to answer with any certainty, but I meant it as an exercise in imagination.

Try to imagine growing up in a world where nothing beyond science and technology was ever taught to you. You also had a teacher who explained that we are the dominant species on this planet, with a vast amount of knowledge already acquired about the world, but there are many, many unknowns and we may never know all the answers. Our source of information is our sensory organs and our reasoning minds, but there may be almost infinite number of phenomena out there that we are not even equipped to observe/sense/understand. But it is all right, we don't need to have all the answers, it is enough to use our tools (senses, mind, instruments) to expand our knowledge and learn more and more about our world.

When I try to imagine growing up in a world like that, I feel I would have been completely contended and would not have found a need to find a shortcut to 'final' answers.

I guess this is the best I can do to clarify my meaning.

Well said.
Like me.
Born on wrong planet to wrong species.
One ruled by self interest and envy

[aiddon]

Well said.
Like me.
Born on wrong planet to wrong species.
One ruled by self interest and envy

Yes, I think you would love being a tortoise on Uranus...go for it.

[Hjarloprillar]

Well said.
Like me.
Born on wrong planet to wrong species.
One ruled by self interest and envy

Yes, I think you would love being a tortoise on Uranus...go for it.

Sarcasm, how unique.

uranus is class 3 gas giant. The environment is so uniform as to make evolution worthless.
The species
Tortoises (/ˈtɔːr.təs.ɪz/, Testudinidae) are a family of land-dwelling reptiles in the order Testudines. Like other turtles, tortoises are shielded from predators by a shell. The top part of the shell is the carapace, the underside is the plastron, and the two are connected by the bridge. The tortoise endoskeleton has the adaptation of having an external shell fused to the ribcage. Tortoises can vary in size from a few centimeters to two meters. They are usually diurnal animals with tendencies to be crepuscular depending on the ambient temperatures. They are generally reclusive animals.

so, if you want to pooh pooh anothers position at least try for a planet with a crust...lol

why do i bother with vags? Because under the flippant stupidity a true mind is hid [not often but,sometimes]

[QMan]

Interesting question, especially since my own suggestions in these threads has been that 99.9% (meaning, a very large percentage) of any individual's knowledge comes from outside sources. But, with regard to God, since you are bringing him up, you then must grant him the ability of independent agency (action), or your God would be wrongly defined. Based on that, your question must admit to the possibility that God would arrange, control, etc. the means by which he would appear in our awareness. In other words, it is not up to the individual except for the requirement of responding to such a divine impetus. In my opinion, such an impetus would always come about because it is in God's as well as our interest.

[Ned]

Or not....

[QMan]

Well, I gave you my opinion, which is what you asked for.

[Ned]

I am sorry that I was so short, but I did not bring up God (only in the title).

Rather the opposite, all my posts were trying to explain why I could not bring up the concept of 'god', for lack of any personal experience that would require the 'god' hypothesis.

Your post assumed the existence of a god, as a fact, and then it argued that an omnipotent god could make me experience him/her/it even without any personal experience. I found this argument circular, that is why I did not reply in detail at first. Sorry!

[phyllo]

Evolution will produce crackpots, dreamers, visionaries, lunatics.

They will produce the unreal concepts. Unless your mind is completely closed, you will think about those concepts.

[Hjarloprillar]

all my posts were trying to explain why I could not bring up the concept of 'god', for lack of any personal experience

I propose that

"God did not make reality. Any more than a farmer makes a field of corn.
He plows and seeds reality. making it work to his ends."

Gods plan is not specific to any plant in the field.
This is my interpretation of the DIRECTION we live in.
where anti entropic systems can result in growth for a time. then fall. All 'progress' is paid for in death.

evolution, stage 2

Prill

[Ned]

I have a serious problem with the concept of 'god'.

Partly because, for me, the concept is undefined, therefore meaningless.

However, if God did exist, I would be really mad.

Consider my reasons:

Predation

I hate god!
I don't believe in the bastard
but I hate him anyway,
for blasting away
at the hapless victims
of his 'intelligent' design.

Eat and be eaten,
that’s the commandment,
obeyed by all of his creatures:
the lion rips the throat of the zebra,
a pack of wolf tears a deer apart,
the fox devours the rabbit,
The cat ‘plays’ with the mouse,
praying mantis munches on butteflies,
venus flytrap digests insects,
humans, on top of the food chain
kill, use, torture them all,
including their own kind.

It would have been nothing
to the ‘omnipotent’ ‘father’
to base his design of all of us
on photosynthesis,
but he liked the idea of
pain, fear and suffering,
probably as a form of
divine entertainment.

We did not deserve this:
falling prey to predation:
what we do to each other
and to all creations
on this magnificent planet.

Since he doesn't exist,
I will have to
transfer my ire
to those of us
who claim to love him
and pretend to speak in his name.

[phyllo]

How much conscious life is based on photosynthesis?
None?
Maybe there is a reason for that.

[Ned]

I suggest you read "The Unconscious Civilization" by John Ralston Saul.

[Bernard]

I don't think it would make any difference as science has concepts that stand in for God - existence, for one.

[Ned]

science has concepts that stand in for God - existence, for one.

Existence

Existence is such a tenuous thing:
a knife-edge splitting off
future from the past:
the not-yet from the not-any-more,
it doesn't last at all,
just tumbles through our minds
from plans to memories
carrying with it
who we think we are:
a collection of hopes and fears -
one never asks:
if there is a grave
for our everlasting soul?