"...only after I've been drinking awhile"
HA!
The beginning of time
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henry quirk
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Re: The beginning of time
Yes well some people are better that way than sobber.
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Impenitent
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Re: The beginning of time
time is a conspiracy invented by the Swiss to sell watches...
wait a minute...
-Imp
wait a minute...
-Imp
Re: The beginning of time
What time is it, when an Elephant steps on your watch?
A. - Time to get a new watch.
Now I get it, Elephants are also part of the conspiracy.
A. - Time to get a new watch.
Now I get it, Elephants are also part of the conspiracy.
Last edited by thedoc on Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The beginning of time
jackles wrote:Yes well some people are better that way than sobber.
It's inhibitions, many are afraid to say what they really think when sober, whereas most people will be more frank with a few drinks. Though drinking sometimes clouds judgment so that what is said is not always clearly thought out. People tend to say what they really think after a few, even if they aren't thinking very clearly, except for Henry, he always says what the thinks, no matter what.
Last edited by thedoc on Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The beginning of time
BTW, I wear a special charm that keeps Elephants away. I live in Pa. and there are no wild Elephants around here, so the charm must work pretty well. It also keeps Polar Bears away.
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henry quirk
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James Markham
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Re: The beginning of time
Henry, thanks for taking an interest, and I agree topics are always improved by the absence of v.o.t.
So I agree with what you say, time is a concept created out of our perception of events, and because all events are describable by the particular way energy is being degraded, the it would follow that the whole concept is related to this mechanism.
I think the unfolding event which is the universe, is simply the gradual change from a highly excited state, to an eventual state of equilibrium, in which no event will occur, and the concept of time will be redundant.
But as you say, while events do take place, animals require a mental framework in which to organise their sense data, the whole foundation of which, is the concept of time. In humans this has become projected onto actual reality, and has become an aspect we struggle to accept as conceptual.
It's an interesting fact, that although flys possess a limited amount of neurones, they have the ability to process visual information at a faster rate than humans, which essential means they experience life in slow motion when compared to humans. I believe this fact alone proves time is relative, not to velocity, but to the observer, which means without observation, time doesn't exist.
So I agree with what you say, time is a concept created out of our perception of events, and because all events are describable by the particular way energy is being degraded, the it would follow that the whole concept is related to this mechanism.
I think the unfolding event which is the universe, is simply the gradual change from a highly excited state, to an eventual state of equilibrium, in which no event will occur, and the concept of time will be redundant.
But as you say, while events do take place, animals require a mental framework in which to organise their sense data, the whole foundation of which, is the concept of time. In humans this has become projected onto actual reality, and has become an aspect we struggle to accept as conceptual.
It's an interesting fact, that although flys possess a limited amount of neurones, they have the ability to process visual information at a faster rate than humans, which essential means they experience life in slow motion when compared to humans. I believe this fact alone proves time is relative, not to velocity, but to the observer, which means without observation, time doesn't exist.
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henry quirk
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Re: The beginning of time
"I think the unfolding event which is the universe, is simply the gradual change from a highly excited state, to an eventual state of equilibrium"
Agreed.
#
"...without observation, time doesn't exist"
The 'measure' we call time doesn't exist...entropy (the degrading of systems) does exist independent of an observer.
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"topics are always improved by the absence of v.o.t."
HA!
Agreed!
Agreed.
#
"...without observation, time doesn't exist"
The 'measure' we call time doesn't exist...entropy (the degrading of systems) does exist independent of an observer.
#
"topics are always improved by the absence of v.o.t."
HA!
Agreed!
Re: The beginning of time
I wrote this some time ago and I think it fits here.
Objective Time ? by thedoc
Aug 1, 2008 3:22:11 AM cite
"Much of what people know or believe about time is due to the language used to refer to time. For this discussion I will dwell in the realm of Philosophical objectivism and not subjectivism (solipsism). The reference is often to the passage of time as it "Flows past us". Science refers to time as the 4th dimension 'Duration' which implies that like the other three we can move along the dimension of time. There is much fictional speculation about adventurers traveling to distant places and times, and I do enjoy 'Dr. Who' and his TARDIS, but it is fiction. Poets write of traveling along the road of life as if all the events of our past & future are there, where we have been, and will be. As I said we exist in the current instant along with the rest of the universe and will exist in the next along with everything else. The progression of events is just that one instant after another, we are here now, we remember events that seem to stretch out in our past, and anticipate events that may happen in the future, but our only reality is the present. All speculation about time travel is nonsense, the future has not happened and the past is gone, there is no-when to go to. I do not say we should forget the past as events may repeat. I do not say that we should not plan for the future as we can make better choices based on our memories of the past. The flow of time is an illusion as there is nothing that is flowing past that exists before or after the present. With our clocks and calenders we can record and correlate events that have happened, but clocks and calenders do not control that one moment follows another and will continue whether we notice or not. That time seems to pass slowly or quickly is a psychological illusion dependent on our attention to the sequence of events. The clock ticks off regularly and steadily regardless of our awareness, and each tick is a reality in itself and the only one that existed then. We continue to exist now in this instant and the next, and the next minuet, hour, day, year, but time is a concept that has no reality, It is only an illusion created by our clocks and calenders with their records of events. Time is the name we have given to the sequence of existence, but must not be construed as something that flows or passes but is only the record of the moments of our existence."
by thedoc
Objective Time ? by thedoc
Aug 1, 2008 3:22:11 AM cite
"Much of what people know or believe about time is due to the language used to refer to time. For this discussion I will dwell in the realm of Philosophical objectivism and not subjectivism (solipsism). The reference is often to the passage of time as it "Flows past us". Science refers to time as the 4th dimension 'Duration' which implies that like the other three we can move along the dimension of time. There is much fictional speculation about adventurers traveling to distant places and times, and I do enjoy 'Dr. Who' and his TARDIS, but it is fiction. Poets write of traveling along the road of life as if all the events of our past & future are there, where we have been, and will be. As I said we exist in the current instant along with the rest of the universe and will exist in the next along with everything else. The progression of events is just that one instant after another, we are here now, we remember events that seem to stretch out in our past, and anticipate events that may happen in the future, but our only reality is the present. All speculation about time travel is nonsense, the future has not happened and the past is gone, there is no-when to go to. I do not say we should forget the past as events may repeat. I do not say that we should not plan for the future as we can make better choices based on our memories of the past. The flow of time is an illusion as there is nothing that is flowing past that exists before or after the present. With our clocks and calenders we can record and correlate events that have happened, but clocks and calenders do not control that one moment follows another and will continue whether we notice or not. That time seems to pass slowly or quickly is a psychological illusion dependent on our attention to the sequence of events. The clock ticks off regularly and steadily regardless of our awareness, and each tick is a reality in itself and the only one that existed then. We continue to exist now in this instant and the next, and the next minuet, hour, day, year, but time is a concept that has no reality, It is only an illusion created by our clocks and calenders with their records of events. Time is the name we have given to the sequence of existence, but must not be construed as something that flows or passes but is only the record of the moments of our existence."
by thedoc
Re: The beginning of time
Does your existance flow then theodoc.
Re: The beginning of time
Time passes, whether there is someone to notice, or not. Sure, our notion of time is a concept - call it that if you like. But time is not a concept. It's real.
Re: The beginning of time
My existence, exists, flowing? I'm not sure of that, only that I experience one moment and then the next. Language can be a real hindrance to understanding.jackles wrote:Does your existance flow then theodoc.
Re: The beginning of time
In my opinion the brain is a bridge between local reality.and an absolute existance the absolute existance doesnt flow in a timelike way.but causes the local reality to seem to be flowing or moving in a time like way.so consciousness dosnt move in any terms but the event the brain sees moves.or seems to move.
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James Markham
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Re: The beginning of time
Jackles, I think the brain, and the concepts that exist within it, is a link between consciousness, and reality as it is fundamentaly. I belive reality is essential metaphysical, a set of facts, the contemplation of, and feeling towards, and reaction to, being what exists as fundamental and permenant. Because reality in its bare form is'nt conducive to rationality when in its infancy, contemplation is nurtured in this conceptually aided arena that we percieve.