Are Guns the Problem?

[henry quirk]

"A tool user shaking his or her fist is a lot less of a problem than a tool user pointing his or her gun."

No doubt.

The fist shaker is less of a problem than the fist user who's less of a problem than the club user who's less of a problem than the knife user who's less of a problem than the gun user who less of a problem than the bomb user and, on and on.

And still: it's the user of the tool who IS the problem...not the tool.

Reducing the user to his own mitts and teeth doesn't eliminate the problem.

Let's say you "*take their guns away", then all those folks who woulda used a gun will find another means, another instrument, another tool.

Would 'measurable' crime go down?

The stats would depend entirely on who did the measurin' and how, but assuming it did go down in a meaningful way, this only means you've made quiet the noisy ('I can't shoot Joe but I can make his life miserable through a variety of *harassments').

Folks can and should pursue whatever sanctions each likes when it comes to violence and guns...I just don't believe removing a class of tools of items or instruments means squat against the intent of one (or many) to 'do' violence.

#

"How many people have held up a bank by using their teeth?"

Not many (if any), but they used knifes and bats and bags of medical waste and the mere threat of an unseen weapon.

*shrug*







*good luck with that, by the way...at least in America, that'll never happen

**how many folks suicide as a result of nonviolent harassment, I wonder?

[Godfree]

"A tool user shaking his or her fist is a lot less of a problem than a tool user pointing his or her gun."

No doubt.

The fist shaker is less of a problem than the fist user who's less of a problem than the club user who's less of a problem than the knife user who's less of a problem than the gun user who less of a problem than the bomb user and, on and on.

And still: it's the user of the tool who IS the problem...not the tool.

Reducing the user to his own mitts and teeth doesn't eliminate the problem.

Let's say you "*take their guns away", then all those folks who woulda used a gun will find another means, another instrument, another tool.

Would 'measurable' crime go down?

The stats would depend entirely on who did the measurin' and how, but assuming it did go down in a meaningful way, this only means you've made quiet the noisy ('I can't shoot Joe but I can make his life miserable through a variety of *harassments').

Folks can and should pursue whatever sanctions each likes when it comes to violence and guns...I just don't believe removing a class of tools of items or instruments means squat against the intent of one (or many) to 'do' violence.

#

"How many people have held up a bank by using their teeth?"

Not many (if any), but they used knifes and bats and bags of medical waste and the mere threat of an unseen weapon.

*shrug*







*good luck with that, by the way...at least in America, that'll never happen

**how many folks suicide as a result of nonviolent harassment, I wonder?

You describe the situation as one that you cannot control ,
that the thugs and criminals are bigger and more powerful, than your police ,
so it doesn't matter what tactic you employ ,
the thugs still win according to you ,
how negative ,
if the size/power of the weapon is not the issue ,
then stop trying to control the size of Irans weapon ,
if it's not an issue of availability ,
then stop trying to reduce the numbers of chemical weapons available to assad ,
america can see that bans and restrictions are necessary ,on the world ,
but not on their own people,,???
your movies ,morals ,society in general , is pretty crude rude and greedy capitalism ,
for the most religious western nation ,
your also pretty out of control with gangs and capitalists calling the shots , and firing them ,
for the world to begin to take america seriously ever again,
it would need to tidy it's own back yard up first ,
show us how you can fix your own nation ,
and then we might begin to think your capable of making good decisions for the planet ,,!!!

[bobevenson]

For the world to begin to take America seriously ever again, it would need to tidy it's own back yard up first; show us how you can fix your own nation, and then we might begin to think you're capable of making good decisions for the planet.

The U.S. has plenty of problems, but our problems can be solved since we've actually got a constitution based on human rights, unlike the rest of the world.

[henry quirk]

Godfree,

You can remove every last offensive device from the planet and folks will still kill folks.

Till you change human nature, you and yours are chasing rainbows with all this gun control, bomb control, 'whatever' control.

But, please, as you like, you and your fellows should spend ALL your time, money, and other resources tilting at windmills.

I won't join you...I have better things to do.









*for the record: 'Henry Quirk' is NOT synonymous with 'America'...what jackasses in power do is not my fault; they do these things to satisfy their own agendas, not mine; they do not speak for me, I don't speak for them...if you have problem with American government and culture then write Washington and Hollywood and leave me out of it...

[Godfree]

Godfree,

You can remove every last offensive device from the planet and folks will still kill folks.

Till you change human nature, you and yours are chasing rainbows with all this gun control, bomb control, 'whatever' control.

But, please, as you like, you and your fellows should spend ALL your time, money, and other resources tilting at windmills.

I won't join you...I have better things to do.


Without a gun a 13 yr old would not have killed his teacher ,thus destroying henry jerks argument






*for the record: 'Henry Quirk' is NOT synonymous with 'America'...what jackasses in power do is not my fault; they do these things to satisfy their own agendas, not mine; they do not speak for me, I don't speak for them...if you have problem with American government and culture then write Washington and Hollywood and leave me out of it...

Ok henry jerk , you don't mind if 13yr old kids shoot their teachers,
simple maths henry ,
millions of guns lying around ,
kids finds one picks it up takes it to school and ruins several lives including his own ,
who's fault ??????????????, yours henry , not directly ,
but the parents maybe , for leaving the gun where the kid could get it ,
the state maybe for letting millions if dickhead idiots who think they are grown up,
own guns in the first place ,
society maybe for not standing up and demanding government do something ,
about the gun problem ,
who do you blame henry ,,??

[bobevenson]

...about the gun problem...

There never has been a gun problem, only a people problem, and I refer to Walter Williams' article. Going back in time, guns were far more easily available, but little if any gun problem. It's the leftist establishment that has created the problem with its indoctrination, mind control and suppression of free speech, showing utter disdain for customs, traditions, moral values and rules of etiquette, where today you can't even walk down the street without the fear of getting mugged.

[henry quirk]

"henry jerk"

Screw you.

#

"you don't mind if 13yr old kids shoot their teachers"

I never said that. If that's what you believe I've posted here, then you're dense.

#

"who do you blame henry?"

Said it several times already.

Here's one more time for Godfree the Dense: the tool user (often synonymous with the tool owner).

In the case of the kid: the parents (for leaving' their gun accessible to their dumbass, deranged, kid); the kid (for being a deranged, murderin', dumbass).

And, for the record: that murderin' kid coulda used a knife, a baseball bat or a homemade bomb, so -- no -- my argument is not nullified...not that Godfree the Dense would know...he has no clue what my position is, despite my stating it multiple times in this thread.

#

Do me a favor, Dense Person: if you're gonna quote me, leave tripe like this, "Without a gun a 13 yr old would not have killed his teacher ,thus destroying henry jerks argument" out of the quote box...I didn't say that; you did...having such crap in the quote box can lead the reader astray.

[Arising_uk]

...
And still: it's the user of the tool who IS the problem...not the tool. ...

No argument from me here.
However,

Would 'measurable' crime go down?

The body count in individual cases might? And this does seem to be what's upsetting the relatives.

[henry quirk]

"The body count in individual cases might? And this does seem to be what's upsetting the relatives."

I have great sympathy for folks who lose loved ones (in any circumstance).

However, I don't want those folks, in the heat of grief, making policy that hobbles me.

[Arising_uk]

...

However, I don't want those folks, in the heat of grief, making policy that hobbles me.

So what policy would you have?

[henry quirk]

As I say up-thread: defend yourself better.

Not much, I know, but it's the best I can do.

The flaw: some folk, lots of folks, can't or won't.

The advantage: I will and do...

[Godfree]

As I say up-thread: defend yourself better.

Not much, I know, but it's the best I can do.

The flaw: some folk, lots of folks, can't or won't.

The advantage: I will and do...

that sounds just like the thinking of a young kid with a gun about to rob a licker store ,
I have a gun and they don't ,,,
so would you feel scared if you didn't have your gun ,
would it make you insecure ,
does it anger you the idea that a burgler might have a gun but you wouldn't ,
so the solution is to make sure you have a gun ,,??
and isn't that exactly how we got an arms race ,
everybody wanting the same or similar weapons as their enemy's.
if a kid shows up with an automatic rifle and outguns you ,
if you survive would you then go and get an assault rifle to compete ,
would you get a bigger and bigger weapon , to try and remain in control ,,???
find some courage , get rid of the guns ,!!!

[bobevenson]

find some courage, get rid of the guns!!!

Wake up, my friend, you are dreaming the impossible dream (thank God)!

[xenuwonder]

Hahahaha, American Gun advocates make me laugh. It's like the "I have a flash car" syndrome due to the lack of testicular fortitude.

Must have gun because have no balls..

Does that gun make you feel special? Does it make you feel like you are powerful? ahahaha. Grow a pair!

The argument that one idiot on here posed about people will just use whatever they can to kill, their fists, sticks, knives etc if you take away the guns.

OK. So what. Do you think a 15 year old kid will be able to slay 20 + children in quick time with his fists? I think not. Try again Einstein.

You guys have no credible logic to this argument. Why do you need a gun? To protect yourself against who? A bad govt? Communists? hahahah.

People are the problem not the guns? So why is the US trying to stop Iran having nuclear weapons? Why not spend time working on the Iranian poeple because it's them that are the problem right, not the weapons? Keep trying to grow a pair!

You need to protect yourselves from each other as you're all trigger hapyy idiots with guns.

Besides, I think the US has more to worry about than keeping rednecks happy with their gun laws.

How about paying your debt off so you don't end up destroying the lives of the generations to come who ultimately will have to pay for it.

'Wake up my friend, you are dreaming the impossible dream (thank god!)

hahahahaha. There is no helping you buddy... You thank your god, I won't because there is no god poor Bob.

Time to go the shooting range!!! Yeeeehaaaaaaa

Xenuout

In God we trust? Hahahaha. A fairy tale for adults.

[bobevenson]

"Wake up, my friend, you are dreaming the impossible dream (thank god)!"
hahahahaha. There is no helping you buddy... You thank your god, I won't because there is no god poor Bob.

A humble prophet like myself needs no help, my friend.