Is all consciousness the same

[Godfree]

Godfree, thanks for all that, it explains everything. Finally, thanks to you, I can give up thinking there's anything more to discuss.

One thing does puzzle me thou, if you have all the answers figured out, what do you bother with a philosophy forum for? You surely don't expect me to believe its due to philanthropy, and your duty to the stupid.

I am here because it frustrates me to see religion with so much power ,
so many peoples lives are being ruined and the voice of reason is absent ,
government sees religion as credible , they fund it , and my "secular" government ,
starts with a christian prayer ,
I applied for a charitable trust as an Atheist , "unlawfull",
they will fund and practice religion ,
but they won't fund Atheism ,
there is no Atheist representative in parliament , we have many religious ones ,
no Atheist party , but christian democrats etc,
I am here to try and even up the playing feild ,
to try and counter some of the spin and bullshit spreads by government ,
and private individuals for their own private gain,
two thousand years ago it was said ,

A common person sees religion as real ,
A rich person sees religion as false ,
And a politician sees religion as useful .

we are being farmed , and religion is just one of the tools they use to control us ,,,!!!

[Godfree]

There is no evidence or proof that any god spirit world other side exists ,
so I base my understanding of the world on what we can prove ,
and I do know exactly what I'm trying to say ,
I'm trying to say that in order for there to be this universal consciousness ,
you have to have a spirit or god or other world for this to be based in ,
and no such god or world exists ,
there is no spirit world ghosts angels spirits or devils ,
there is no other brain , in your brain , unless your a bit shcizo ,
so lets stop the attempt to rationalize that a spirit world must be real , get real ,
and face your own mortality.

Are you willing to accept anyone else's experience and insight besides Carl Sagan's?

1. For example, my sister is a nurse in an intensive care unit I can vouch for her. She is competent, sane, not prone to hallucinate, and has all her marbles. She's been a nurse over 30 years. Every once in a while a (mostly elderly) patient does not make it and will die after she cared for them for an extended period of time.
It has happened on a few occasions that she returns to the room just after the patient died and she sees the patient standing at the foot of the bed as a spirit smiling at her and thanking her for the care she had provided and then disappears.

Now, do you have nurse friends? They might know about this and it should be easy enough to research.

2. Please watch this video of Dr. Mary Neal , who died, went to heaven and came back.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wW2TLZLYgm ... W2TLZLYgm4

Or perhaps you fall in this category?

Can an irresistible force move an immovable object? Same as - can God reach an unreachable person (without doing damage?)

I can make this easy for ,and just to reassure you I understand all about spirits,
my daughter is a medium , and helps people communicate with their past relatives ,
so the explanation ,
when your nurse friend said she saw the person as a spirit after they had died , at the end of the bed ,
what conjured that image ,
was it real , could other people who were also in the room have also seen it ,???
or does she and only she see these images ,
could this be just in her mind , if no one else sees them , her mind conjured those images ,
she imagined them ,
what proof have we that this experience is real ,
do we have other people who can verify the" spirit at the end of the bed",
so if we believe , we see ,
if we don't , we don't ,,???
science and facts are based on the idea that it works whether you believe or not ,
isn't that what the truth is ,
if god is real , is alah ,budha ,Ra ,,and all the other gods ,
give me ONE RATIONAL EXPLANATION ,
for why this god is more credible or believable than that one,,???

[James Markham]

Godfree, this thread isn't actually about god or religion, it's about whether the experience of what it is like to be conscious is the same in everyone. So for instance, if I'm angry about the same degree as someone else, is it the same experience for us both.

I'm trying to understand in what way the sensation of what it's like to be aware, is different in individual examples of awareness. At the moment I'm still of the opinion that what varies is what we are aware of, and not what it's like to be aware of things.

So god has nothing to do with it, I think you want the religious section.

[QMan]

if god is real , is alah ,budha ,Ra ,,and all the other gods ,
give me ONE RATIONAL EXPLANATION ,
for why this god is more credible or believable than that one,,???

James, just one last digression from the topic of this section, since I just can't let Godfree's challenge go unanswered. Godfree, please go to below page and find my append for your answer (in Philosophy of Religion, We are all born Atheist). If you wish to reply, please do in that forum/topic and not here to avoid disrupting the thread. My append on that page is second from bottom.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11243&start=15

[jackles]

Godfree is a conspiricy theorist.he thinks all religions are a conspiricey.he cannot understand his own god will to be part of one thing.its a case of identity my guess is hes a young fellow with a lot to learn.

[Godfree]

Godfree is a conspiricy theorist.he thinks all religions are a conspiricey.he cannot understand his own god will to be part of one thing.its a case of identity my guess is hes a young fellow with a lot to learn.

well thats about average for your grasp of reality ,
I'm a grey haired 56 yr old who has been an Atheist since the age of 6
fifty years of watching religion and it's ignorance ,
it really makes it obvious when you can step back and see it from afar,
a bit like being in a relationship , we often can't see the obvious faults in our partner , or ourselves ,
because we are too close to it , we want it ,
and that corrupts our ability to be impartial ,
the desire for religion to be real ,
far outways any rational or sensible look at the facts ,
the facts are , ZERO PROOF FOR GOD OR LIFE AFTER DEATH ,
these are the facts of the matter ,
but you are not interested in facts , you cling to the very remote,POSSIBILITY ,
that there MIGHT be a god ,
as if it was REAL PROVEN FACT ,
and it is here-say, lies, mythology, ignorance and stupidity ,
THEY ARE THE FACTS

[James Markham]

Godfree, as I said before, all that has nothing to do with this thread, so I'm going to start a new thread in the religious section entitled "this old **** knows everything", I'd like to question you there, and hear your opinions.

[Godfree]

Godfree, this thread isn't actually about god or religion, it's about whether the experience of what it is like to be conscious is the same in everyone. So for instance, if I'm angry about the same degree as someone else, is it the same experience for us both.

I'm trying to understand in what way the sensation of what it's like to be aware, is different in individual examples of awareness. At the moment I'm still of the opinion that what varies is what we are aware of, and not what it's like to be aware of things.

So god has nothing to do with it, I think you want the religious section.

Well reality is an individual experience ,
I did get the feeling the author of this thread ,
was trying to make a connection between the consciousness and the spirit world ,
the other side , so like consciousness is a place we go or as I put it a station we tune in to ,
in other words consciousness is like another station that we all tune in to so we all ,
experience the same consciousness , like it's the power the source the energy ,
and we just have to tune in and listen ,
but of course we are listening to ourselves ,
the whole point of this thread if you want to get in to it ,
was to try and work out if consciousness , was like our conscience ,
like it's gods word , like morality , we are all supposed to know it ,
is consciousness the same , it's just taping in to god ,,???
so when you lot can actually grasp reality ,
you will find I make a lot more sense than you previously thought ,
I'v been doing this for fifty years , you are children ,
too frightened to face reality ...

[jackles]

Godfree you should be on the stage.not sigin and dancin




but the next one outa town.

[James Markham]

Godfree, I am the author of this thread, so that gives us a bit of an idea about your powers of observation. So as I said, this is not about god or spirits, it's about the sensation of being aware, and whether or not it is a diferent sensation for each of us.

[jackles]

In zen the state of satori is reached by zen masters.what is satori .satori is ordinary every day consiousness.but ordinary everyday consciousness which has reach enlightenment .consciousness that has seen its self. now how can satori be shared by observers not only in the same time but across time and space..satori is out side the limits of spacetime consciousness.and no matter where or when satori is realised it is singular.there are not two or more states of satori.it is one state.out side the sizelike limits of time space.but it is still walk down the street consciousness.satori is de localised consciousness.or consciousness which has become nonlocal.hope that makes scence.
Ps .on reaching satori the observer realises nonmovement satori dosnt move in time or space.as in taoism tao does not move.consciousness dosnt move.

[James Markham]

Jackles, thanks for the explanation of satori, it does make sense to me, and I find it a very interesting idea. As I've said in this thread, I have suspected something much like this idea for a while, but have had only a limited time in which to formulate it into something intelligible. I think that one good thing about religion, is it's ability to preserve and develop ideas over many generations, in this way, possibly at some point there will be one religion that contains many more inherent truths, with a lot less chaff to sift through.

My own story is increasingly one where my own thoughts and conclusions, are reinforced by the discovery of similar, and sometimes identicle ideas, built into some particular body of religious doctrine.

I still have a need to test the logical validity of certain ideas, but as now, I find there position to be of sound reason. So unless I hear of any evidence to the contrary, I conclude there is but one consciousness, but many diferent perspectives through which it is aware.

[jackles]

Yeah thats what satori means.consciousness.or put another way its the spirit of christmas but without emotion .regards jakles