Are Guns the Problem?

[Ginkgo]

Do any of you left-wing, gun-hating liberals have anything to say about Walter Williams' article?

Ok then I would like to focus on Williams' article.

I think he is mostly correct. Except perhaps the last paragraph.

You mean you think kids should be thrown out of school for biting the shape of a gun out of a Pop-Tart?

No, I don't think they should. I am skeptical about Williams' claim that we can revive the past in order to save the future.

[bobevenson]

I see, you think morality, self-discipline and character are old hat, vestiges of the past, with little or no significance for the future.

[Ginkgo]

I see, you think morality, self-discipline and character are old hat, vestiges of the past, with little or no significance for the future.

No I don't, I actually think the opposite. I just can't see how you can resurrect that aspect of the past.

[bobevenson]

I see, you think morality, self-discipline and character are old hat, vestiges of the past, with little or no significance for the future.

No I don't, I actually think the opposite. I just can't see how you can resurrect that aspect of the past.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Either you do or don't think those qualities have gone the way of the dinosaurs and can never be resurrected.

[Ginkgo]

I see, you think morality, self-discipline and character are old hat, vestiges of the past, with little or no significance for the future.

No I don't, I actually think the opposite. I just can't see how you can resurrect that aspect of the past.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Either you do or don't think those qualities have gone the way of the dinosaurs and can never be resurrected.

Unfortunately they have gone the way of the dinosaurs and equally unfortunately they cannot be resurrected.

I think we are stuck with it.

[bobevenson]

That reminds me of Francis Pharcellus Church's famous reply to Virginia O'Hanlon's letter, "Is there a Santa Claus?" He said, "You have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age."

[Ginkgo]

That reminds me of Francis Pharcellus Church's famous reply to Virginia O'Hanlon's letter, "Is there a Santa Claus?" He said, "You have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age."

That's probably because I am a pessimist.

[bobevenson]

That reminds me of Francis Pharcellus Church's famous reply to Virginia O'Hanlon's letter, "Is there a Santa Claus?" He said, "You have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age."

That's probably because I am a pessimist.

The book of Revelation and "The Ouzo Prophecy" offers you salvation, my friend.

[Arising_uk]

...
Every time there's a shooting tragedy, there are more calls for gun control. Let's examine a few historical facts. By 1910, the National Rifle Association had succeeded in establishing 73 NRA-affiliated high-school rifle clubs. The 1911 second edition of the Boy Scout Handbook made qualification in NRA's junior marksmanship program a prerequisite for obtaining a BSA merit badge in marksmanship. In 1918, the Winchester Repeating Arms Co. established its own Winchester Junior Rifle Corps. The program grew to 135,000 members by 1925. In New York City, gun clubs were started at Boys, Curtis, Commercial, Manual Training and Stuyvesant high schools. With so many guns in the hands of youngsters, did we see today's level of youth violence?

What about gun availability? Catalogs and magazines from the 1940s, '50s and '60s were full of gun advertisements directed to children and parents. For example, "What Every Parent Should Know When a Boy or Girl Wants a Gun" was published by the National Shooting Sports Foundation. The 1902 Sears mail-order catalog had 35 pages of firearm advertisements. People just sent in their money, and a firearm was shipped. For most of our history, a person could simply walk into a hardware store, virtually anywhere in our country, and buy a gun. Few states bothered to have even age restrictions on buying guns.

Of course it could also be that a fair bulk of the American youth at these times were involved elsewhere shooting others.

One figure I've found is that there are 270,000,000 guns in America at present. Thats a lot of guns, you'd not be surprised at them being used.

Gun ownership(2010) is at a historic low of 32% from a high in the 70s of 50% so thats 94,000,000 odd 'members' as opposed to the 135,000 mentioned when things were supposed to be peaceful.

Those and other historical facts should force us to ask ourselves: Why — at a time in our history when guns were readily available, when a person could just walk into a store or order a gun through the mail, when there were no FBI background checks, no waiting periods, no licensing requirements — was there not the frequency and kind of gun violence that we sometimes see today, when access to guns is more restricted? Guns are guns. If they were capable of behavior, as some people seem to suggest, they should have been doing then what they're doing now.

So get involved in another war?

Customs, traditions, moral values and rules of etiquette, not just laws and government regulations, are what make for a civilized society, not restraints on inanimate objects. These behavioral norms — transmitted by example, word of mouth and religious teachings — represent a body of wisdom distilled through ages of experience, trial and error, and looking at what works. The benefit of having customs, traditions and moral values as a means of regulating behavior is that people behave themselves even if nobody's watching. In other words, it's morality that is society's first line of defense against uncivilized behavior.

So either the UK is an exemplar of a civilised moral society or having restraints on inanimate objects works.

Moral standards of conduct, as well as strict and swift punishment for criminal behaviors, have been under siege in our country for more than a half-century. ...

What a load of old toss. American imprisions and punishes more than it ever has.

Moral absolutes have been abandoned as a guiding principle. We've been taught not to be judgmental, that one lifestyle or value is just as good as another. More often than not, the attack on moral standards has been orchestrated by the education establishment and progressives. Police and laws can never replace these restraints on personal conduct so as to produce a civilized society. At best, the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of defense for a civilized society. The more uncivilized we become the more laws are needed to regulate behavior.

Given that the American dream is the pursuit and right of individual happiness I think WJW is sounding a bit communist here.

What's worse is that instead of trying to return to what worked, progressives want to replace what worked with what sounds good or what seems plausible, such as more gun locks, longer waiting periods and stricter gun possession laws. Then there's progressive mindlessness "cures," such as "zero tolerance" for schoolyard recess games such as cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians, shouting "bang bang," drawing a picture of a pistol, making a gun out of Lego pieces, and biting the shape of a gun out of a Pop-Tart. This kind of unadulterated lunacy — which focuses on an inanimate object such as a gun instead of on morality, self-discipline and character — will continue to produce disappointing results.

No doubt but hankering for a mythologised past won't be making much of a difference either.

[bobevenson]

Hankering for a mythologised past won't be making much of a difference either.

That sentence alone demonstrates you have taken leave of your senses.

[Arising_uk]

That sentence alone demonstrates you have taken leave of your senses.

As usual no content in your reply.

Please don't bother to reply to my posts as your disabilities make it too painful to bother with you anymore.

[bobevenson]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, and don't let the door hit your butt on the way out!

[Arising_uk]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, and don't let the door hit your butt on the way out!

Won't be leaving boob and will still be commenting upon your posts, just won't be addressing you in them so please let your next communication to me be your last.

[bobevenson]

Why don't you just get your butt out of this thread all together. All you do is provide a gibberish overload.

[Arising_uk]

All you do is provide a gibberish overload.

Show me. Just for once address an opinion or question.