The Sociology of Needs

[The Voice of Time]

Sociologists study the interactiveness of populations, or, more commonly understood as "societies", or more extensively: the "dynamics of societies", as societies by themselves are quite sterile subjects, and you risk it becoming anthropology, popularly called "cultural studies", if you don't dynamize it.

Perceiving a hundred, a thousand or a million or tens of millions working in patterns of belief and structures of incentivization, one must wonder if nobody has ever asked: what if I could record the needs of every single member and track the supply and consumption of every one of them in real time or at least with minimum latency?

The power such information could provide us is beyond imagining, and given the massive powers that super-computers are incrementally acquiring, I'm wondering if this should really be that difficult to do, especially in a highly developed rich and small country like my own. How hard can it be to make 5 million profiles and track their daily well-being? The constant access virtually everyone experiences in my society is rapidly building up to becoming a potential hyper-synchronizable information infrastructure, where we can report on our status of well-being in various forms every 15 minutes if we want to, but more likely every one or two hours along our waked moments during the day. The data this would produce is unimaginatively valuable, not just for society as a whole, but business could be updated about the real-time demands of goods and the government could be updated on the real-time necessities of redistribution of wealth and the importance of services they provide.

Society needs an information infrastructure that bases itself on real-time sociological data about the needs of the population!

[Impenitent]

and leaders of these third world nations would never exaggerate their needs and would piously deliver all the goods/wealth evenly and justly...

wait...

-Imp

[The Voice of Time]

and leaders of these third world nations would never exaggerate their needs and would piously deliver all the goods/wealth evenly and justly...

wait...

-Imp

I wasn't primarily thinking about third world countries as they would need some extra things worked out first, but it would be applicable there as well though perhaps with much fewer details initially. On the misuse of information this is something one must just put ones faith in because you presume somebody would do the mistake before they have done it, if mistakes were done they would be corrected and if someone works to make a mess they would be held responsible as always.

But this is all superficial without a proper understanding of the functionality need science provides first. It doesn't base itself on people's opinions, it works to synchronize facts and opinion so they may become one where opinion is subjected to fact.

[henry quirk]

What, Voice, is to be done to (or about) the one who refuses to submit to your real time recording and tracking his or her needs, supply, and consumption?

Jail?

Execution?

Re-education?

Exile?

What would you have done to the one who refuses to submit to the *'will of the people'?









*generally directed by the politburo

[The Voice of Time]

What, Voice, is to be done to (or about) the one who refuses to submit to your real time recording and tracking his or her needs, supply, and consumption?

Nothing. Unless the person does harm to others, nothing becomes of the person. But I would expect that unless the person actively tries to escape society, then sooner or later he, or she, would find it a thing too great to miss out on.

Of course, all projects can fail as well, there shall be no denying that, but that is another question, because you don't obsess about whether the computer you have with you now will fail, instead you'd likely take some few precautions if you have important files there and then for the rest pretend as if it'll never stop working. The same thing you'd do with this as well, if it doesn't work, you buy a new one, and if this system has some fault with it, you review it and fix the errors and improve upon it. Likely it would start and then never end as it would continuously be improved upon more and more until it sometime got extremely accurate and people would find it invaluable.

[henry quirk]

Then, *I formally refuse to participate in crafting utopia.









*woulda refused to participate in any case...that nuthin' is to be done about, or to, me is just icing on the cake (not that I actually believe I'd be allowed to just decline...your good intentions aside, Voice, those actually runnin' the show won't, I think, be so magnanimous...obviously [to me]: it'll be war)

[The Voice of Time]

it'll be war

You're obviously oblivious about what I am talking about and maybe what you even yourself am talking about ^^ War is dissatisfaction, the system wouldn't allow it to occur to begin with, or else it wouldn't be the system but something else.

How could possibly studying individual people's needs lead to war? It's preposterous.

[henry quirk]

"How could possibly studying individual people's needs lead to war?"

Christ, but you're naive, and maybe a bit autistic.

If you haven't gotten it by now: some folks don't wanna be studied, don't wanna be cared for, don't wanna be told what they should or shouldn't do.

Some folks are willing to war on those who would presume to 'know better' 'cause those who presume to 'know better', don't know jack.

I get exactly what you propose and want no part of it.

That you actually believe the exercise in 'resource management' you propose would be used as you envision it is -- again -- naive.

You, Voice, are a politburo's wet dream...the ideal follower...oh, I'm sure you have some piddling ambition, imagining you'd be one of the 'philosopher kings'...sorry to burst your bubble but the best you can hope for in your communitarian utopia is 'useful tool'.

*shrug*

[henry quirk]

More naivety...

"the system wouldn't allow it to occur to begin with"

We live in the midst of multiple, interlocking, 'systems' (so interlocked it can be conceived of as one system) wherein war and conflict is natural, normal, and always used by those runnin' the 'system'.

Not only does the 'system' allow war, Voice, it fuckin' starts them.

Jeez...

[The Voice of Time]

Not only does the 'system' allow war, Voice, it fuckin' starts them

Why are you never aware of what I am talking about? Are you drunk or something?

How can a system which doesn't yet exist already start wars?

[henry quirk]

Voice,

Who do you think would initiate this new (version of the) 'system'?

The folks who run the current version of it, that's who.

You really think those 'in' power will relinquish it (power) to folks like 'you'?

You really think 'democracy' will save you, or move things forward, or make for peace and love and tranquility?

As I say: 'you're naive, and maybe a bit autistic'.

[henry quirk]

fnord

[thedoc]

As I say: 'you're naive, and maybe a bit autistic'.

Don't feed the troll, unless it amuses you.

[The Voice of Time]

Voice,

Who do you think would initiate this new (version of the) 'system'?

The folks who run the current version of it, that's who.

You really think those 'in' power will relinquish it (power) to folks like 'you'?

You really think 'democracy' will save you, or move things forward, or make for peace and love and tranquility?

I don't expect anything to happen by itself, but modern societies are not mere power-structures, it's not like a communist party organization where the leaders almost randomly assign titles to people they like. The complexity of modern societies is best understood in terms of money and know-how.

What would likely happen is that an organization would be created that worked to develop the scientific grounds and instruments, then over time, slowly the results of the scientific investment would mix into society and society would find itself a working relationship with the science.

The system I speak of specifically would first come after the above mentioned process. Who would deliver it? Those who knows it, that's who, because nobody else would understand it. The politicians would merely decide the budget and put any necessary restraints, that is regulations, where it is desirable to society.

I trust you are an American as many Americans have this bizarre relationship with their leaders, a recent article in one of the national newspapers was about a Norwegian professor calling the relationship "schizophrenic" between the American people and the American government. I didn't read the full article, but it's well-known how little trust and how much suspicion there is between you people.

[henry quirk]

"modern societies are not mere power-structures"

Yes, they are, as you readily admit with "The complexity of modern societies is best understood in terms of money and know-how."

Money is a placeholder for power.

'Know-how' is power.

#

"nobody else would understand it"

HA!

If I can't understand sumthin' it's because some one has purposefully distorted or muddied it for the express purpose of 'it' not being understood.

Why would folks intentionally complexify shit?

To hold on to power ('you need me to interpret, to translate, to understand and if you need me, then I can control you').

Not a goddamned thing on the whole of the Earth the average schmoe can't grasp given time and dedication...only when the intent to obfuscate is present does anyone find the need to turn to 'authority' or 'expert'.

#

"it's well-known how little trust and how much suspicion there is between you people"

American (and, 'my') cynicism is justified...you best turn a watchful eye to your own government (it's pulling the wool over your eyes).

#

"The politicians would merely decide the budget"

HA! 'merely' HA!

He who hold the purse strings, makes the rules.