Bad Faith

[chasw]

As you know, JP Sartre made a big issue of bad faith and its implications, which has always intrigued me. I did a search for this term and notice several members here have used it in relation to ethical matters.

My position is, bad faith not only harms those it is intended to deceive, but also the person who engages in it. Bad faith, or misrepresentation of one's intentions for parochial advantage, is dishonesty in action. Perhaps this is obvious, but sooner or later, a dishonest person usually comes to grief and feels guilty, especially in a cultural context that places a high value on honesty. Also, the truth about important matters has a way of surfacing long after it was believed to be buried.

As a result, one can safely say on behalf of the human race that acting in bad faith is morally wrong. Unfortunately, in my experience some human societies place a higher value on honesty than others. What do you think?

[Impenitent]

following the will of the democratic collective like a good progressive is the embodiment of bad faith...

-Imp

[Arising_uk]

following the will of the democratic collective like a good progressive is the embodiment of bad faith...

-Imp

Why? Although I assume it would depend upon what this will is suggesting.

[Impenitent]

following the will of the democratic collective like a good progressive is the embodiment of bad faith...

-Imp

Why? Although I assume it would depend upon what this will is suggesting.

because the authenticity of the individual's free choice is removed...

-Imp

[Arising_uk]

Hmm...okay, I can follow the argument but are you saying we should not follow the mores as established by a democratic will? As it'd make it difficult to have a democracy which bad as it is appears the best of a bad lot.

[Impenitent]

follow the will of a bad lot...

follow the will of any lot that is not ones own...

the best of bad faith is still bad faith...

-Imp

[Arising_uk]

follow the will of a bad lot...

follow the will of any lot that is not ones own...

the best of bad faith is still bad faith...

-Imp

So if my will agrees with the will of the democratic collective I'm not in bad faith? Just checking.

[Impenitent]

So if my will agrees with the will of the democratic collective I'm not in bad faith? Just checking.

there is possibly an element of self deception involved...

-Imp

[Cosmo]

Good point! and i like what your saying about about society valuing honesty in an almost relativist approach!

My interpretation is that bad faith particularly in JP Sartre’s account can indeed be seen as dishonesty. However, it is not just the face of how you describe it remember that Sartre introduced bad faith as a way to describe how some act as if they are not free. So one might use excuses to shield them from their absolute freedom, for instance in acting morally bad like lying those who say ‘well I just can’t help it it’s who I am’ and although I agree there is an element of dishonesty to the concept (in that you are almost lying to yourself) it is more reliant on a self-deception from freedom rather than not being honest or dishonest. After all honesty is a virtuous account of morality and existentialism isn’t vitreous in nature (or at least not fundamentally)

Cosmo

[chasw]

...snip...remember that Sartre introduced bad faith as a way to describe how some act as if they are not free...snip...Cosmo

Thanks, Cosmo. As I recall now, this was Sartre's central point about bad faith. The world is full of people going through the motions of living, while claiming they are completely controlled by their circumstances. They deny responsibility for their decisions. I wonder if the pervasive effect of 20th Century materialism has something to do with this, or was bad faith of kind Sartre describes just as prevalent during earlier ages? - CW