The universe expands ...

[Hjarloprillar]

where is time and the srt?

[Godfree]

I'm Australian.
--------
[i confuse many by saying i consider US constitution the most important document coined
'We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
why do i as aussie talk of US?
it is the new rome. untill europe becomes europa and china gets its act together.. thats' the fact.
all roads lead to rome.
i prefer to live here in 53rd state.
In geopolitical military sense the reality is oz exists free now and in future due to the nuke carrier bg's of pac-com.
6 million 2/kms of empty land. is safe for ozzies and for US peeps who now come in.]
--------
hubble and spce command and all off earth exploration was/is done by US . with europe adding to knowledge basket.

your avatar spheres is AMERICAN rationalism..pity we cant ditch kfc and consumerism.
im willing a truce. to collect the wounded.

what say you

america is in my opinion ,
the most corrupt western nation ,
the most backward western nation ,
the most religious western nation ,
the fattest western nation , the most obese ,
america is a great example ,,,of what NOT TO DO .

[SpheresOfBalance]

I'm Australian.
--------
[i confuse many by saying i consider US constitution the most important document coined
'We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
why do i as aussie talk of US?
it is the new rome. untill europe becomes europa and china gets its act together.. thats' the fact.
all roads lead to rome.
i prefer to live here in 53rd state.
In geopolitical military sense the reality is oz exists free now and in future due to the nuke carrier bg's of pac-com.
6 million 2/kms of empty land. is safe for ozzies and for US peeps who now come in.]
--------
hubble and spce command and all off earth exploration was/is done by US . with europe adding to knowledge basket.

your avatar spheres is AMERICAN rationalism..pity we cant ditch kfc and consumerism.
im willing a truce. to collect the wounded.

what say you

Prill, I love all people that love, and hate all people that hate.

I only ever defend, whether anyone can see it or not, is immaterial. It is the truth, I swear by it!

Communication can be difficult, in this medium, with so many dialects.

When I went to Australia, both Perth and Sidney I had a good time driving on the right side of the car, on the left side of the road, luckily with no roos in my grill, a good thing, as I had enough problems shifting with my left hand and staying on the proper side of the road. I was in a Pizza Hut, just a quick familiar choice, when I met an Aussie family, of mother, father and daughter, that heard me talking, asked if I was a Yank, then proceeded to laugh and smile while they told me of their trips to both NYC and LA. I gasped and hoped the two cities treated them nicely. They said as much, to my relief! They loved talking to me, treating me as a welcome guest, and I loved the attention, and applied my best courtesy, though I found myself swamped with communication, not something I'm used too.

This is the way I've always been, no matter what country I've traveled. I've always loved adventure, of seeing new things I've never seen before, always accepting and loving the diversity that is planet earth. If you hate, you can piss up a crooked stick, if you love, then welcome to the club. This does not, however change the fact that I have a serious problem with mankind's selfishness, however it's manifest, in whatever group. Do I want to do away with it's wielders, or purge them of it? Most certainly the latter, so that we can all improve the quality of both the loving and the laughter.

I don't know? What do you think?

[SpheresOfBalance]

I'm Australian.
--------
[i confuse many by saying i consider US constitution the most important document coined
'We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
why do i as aussie talk of US?
it is the new rome. untill europe becomes europa and china gets its act together.. thats' the fact.
all roads lead to rome.
i prefer to live here in 53rd state.
In geopolitical military sense the reality is oz exists free now and in future due to the nuke carrier bg's of pac-com.
6 million 2/kms of empty land. is safe for ozzies and for US peeps who now come in.]
--------
hubble and spce command and all off earth exploration was/is done by US . with europe adding to knowledge basket.

your avatar spheres is AMERICAN rationalism..pity we cant ditch kfc and consumerism.
im willing a truce. to collect the wounded.

what say you

america is in my opinion ,
the most corrupt western nation ,
the most backward western nation ,
the most religious western nation ,
the fattest western nation , the most obese ,
america is a great example ,,,of what NOT TO DO .

Thanks Godfree,

I say nice things about NZ and you clobber where I live. Thanks my friend!

It's a shame that you are only ever able to see things in such absolute terms, when it's impossible for them to be as such. America is not one thing. It is a land of a great many people, all just as much an individual as you are, sure anyone can apply grouping and find any number of those of which you have spoken, but there are a lot more different types of groups, than you have mentioned. What of the American Indian tribes? What of the Homosexuals and Bisexuals? What of her lands, with the tallest trees on earth that are also some of the very oldest, dating back over 2000 years? Your stereotypical behavior, if far below any true philosopher I'd ever come to respect. Because anyone that can only see with such blinders, is very far away from ever understanding what philosophy really is. I hope you shall eventually reconsider, for your sake alone.

[Godfree]

what say you[/quote]
america is in my opinion ,
the most corrupt western nation ,
the most backward western nation ,
the most religious western nation ,
the fattest western nation , the most obese ,
america is a great example ,,,of what NOT TO DO .[/quote]


Thanks Godfree,

I say nice things about NZ and you clobber where I live. Thanks my friend!

It's a shame that you are only ever able to see things in such absolute terms, when it's impossible for them to be as such. America is not one thing. It is a land of a great many people, all just as much an individual as you are, sure anyone can apply grouping and find any number of those of which you have spoken, but there are a lot more different types of groups, than you have mentioned. What of the American Indian tribes? What of the Homosexuals and Bisexuals? What of her lands, with the tallest trees on earth that are also some of the very oldest, dating back over 2000 years? Your stereotypical behavior, if far below any true philosopher I'd ever come to respect. Because anyone that can only see with such blinders, is very far away from ever understanding what philosophy really is. I hope you shall eventually reconsider, for your sake alone.[/quote]

I'm happy to discuss either of those issues I raised ,
do you deny america is the most corrupt western nation ,,???
to be honest , you know , if I may speak frankly here , not that I know any other sort ,
I am dis-appointed in america , let down , so much potential , such opportunity ,
you killed the electric car ,,,!!!!!
insisted on the large coke ,,,!!!
capitalism is out of control in america ,
it's not the politicians that decide things , it's big business ,
the top tax rate was put down because big business told the government to do so ,
it happened in Russia to , greedy capitalists , out of control ...

[SpheresOfBalance]

in black, but SOB wrote in red.

america is in my opinion ,
the most corrupt western nation ,
the most backward western nation ,
the most religious western nation ,
the fattest western nation , the most obese ,
america is a great example ,,,of what NOT TO DO .

Thanks Godfree,

I say nice things about NZ and you clobber where I live. Thanks my friend!

It's a shame that you are only ever able to see things in such absolute terms, when it's impossible for them to be as such. America is not one thing. It is a land of a great many people, all just as much an individual as you are, sure anyone can apply grouping and find any number of those of which you have spoken, but there are a lot more different types of groups, than you have mentioned. What of the American Indian tribes? What of the Homosexuals and Bisexuals? What of her lands, with the tallest trees on earth that are also some of the very oldest, dating back over 2000 years? Your stereotypical behavior, if far below any true philosopher I'd ever come to respect. Because anyone that can only see with such blinders, is very far away from ever understanding what philosophy really is. I hope you shall eventually reconsider, for your sake alone.

Godfree you put down "America," and I am an American.

I'm happy to discuss either of those issues I raised ,
do you deny america is the most corrupt western nation ,,???
to be honest , you know , if I may speak frankly here , not that I know any other sort ,
I am dis-appointed in america , let down , so much potential , such opportunity ,
you killed the electric car ,,,!!!!!
And this REALLY PISSED ME THE FUCK OFF, I could have choked GM's CEO. (which is not America)
insisted on the large coke ,,,!!!
I used to partake, but now either don't buy one and drink H2O or order a medium, (Too many restaurants to count). (Again, NOT America)
capitalism is out of control in america ,
I fucking HATE capitalism, but I'm forced to live under it's grip, I know of no viable replacement, that most would accept. (Again, not America, as America is one hell of a lot more than merely capitalism.)
it's not the politicians that decide things , it's big business ,
Don't get me fucking started, I think the next time one of them starts a recession, someone should pop the rich CEO MF'er in the head. (massively over dramatized, but you get the idea) (Again not America)
the top tax rate was put down because big business told the government to do so ,
Do you really think any of this makes me happy? (again not America)
it happened in Russia to , greedy capitalists , out of control ...
Again, couldn't agree with you more. (not America)

Why is it not the fault of America, because I'm a part of America, and there are many more like me, that agree with you, so why blame Americans? BLAME THOSE RICH MONEY/POWER HUNGRY MF'ers THAT DICTATE POLICY IN AMERICA, AND NOT AMERICA IN AND OF ITSELF, AS IF IT WERE ONE COMPLETE UNIT, IT IS NOT!

If you pissed me off bad enough I wouldn't blame NZ, I'd blame YOU!

All I'm asking is for you to raise your articulation up a notch.

And while you may think my request is trivial, because we both know what you initially meant, who knows who's listening that's not as smart, taking it literally, then coming over here to blow something up, maybe the shopping center I happen to be in, while I'm window shopping for food I can't afford, hoping someone will throw me a scrap. Do the dumb dessert rats really need anymore ammunition? (those that it applies to only, you know who you are.)
The point is, riots can be instigated, with such talk. What's wrong with more intelligent articulation, that spells things out, even for the not so smart eavesdroppers?

You can do anything you want, I just prefer not to offend anyone accidentally, because I'm too lazy to: "say what I mean, and mean what I say!"

You'll never hear me say that a country sucks.

[Godfree]

america is in my opinion ,
the most corrupt western nation ,
the most backward western nation ,
the most religious western nation ,
the fattest western nation , the most obese ,
america is a great example ,,,of what NOT TO DO .[/quote]Thanks Godfree,

I say nice things about NZ and you clobber where I live. Thanks my friend!

It's a shame that you are only ever able to see things in such absolute terms, when it's impossible for them to be as such. America is not one thing. It is a land of a great many people, all just as much an individual as you are, sure anyone can apply grouping and find any number of those of which you have spoken, but there are a lot more different types of groups, than you have mentioned. What of the American Indian tribes? What of the Homosexuals and Bisexuals? What of her lands, with the tallest trees on earth that are also some of the very oldest, dating back over 2000 years? Your stereotypical behavior, if far below any true philosopher I'd ever come to respect. Because anyone that can only see with such blinders, is very far away from ever understanding what philosophy really is. I hope you shall eventually reconsider, for your sake alone.[/quote]Godfree you put down "America," and I am an American.

I'm happy to discuss either of those issues I raised ,
do you deny america is the most corrupt western nation ,,???
to be honest , you know , if I may speak frankly here , not that I know any other sort ,
I am dis-appointed in america , let down , so much potential , such opportunity ,
you killed the electric car ,,,!!!!!
And this REALLY PISSED ME THE FUCK OFF, I could have choked GM's CEO. (which is not America)
insisted on the large coke ,,,!!!
I used to partake, but now either don't buy one and drink H2O or order a medium, (Too many restaurants to count). (Again, NOT America)
capitalism is out of control in america ,
I fucking HATE capitalism, but I'm forced to live under it's grip, I know of no viable replacement, that most would accept. (Again, not America, as America is one hell of a lot more than merely capitalism.)
it's not the politicians that decide things , it's big business ,
Don't get me fucking started, I think the next time one of them starts a recession, someone should pop the rich CEO MF'er in the head. (massively over dramatized, but you get the idea) (Again not America)
the top tax rate was put down because big business told the government to do so ,
Do you really think any of this makes me happy? (again not America)
it happened in Russia to , greedy capitalists , out of control ...
Again, couldn't agree with you more. (not America)[/quote]
Why is it not the fault of America, because I'm a part of America, and there are many more like me, that agree with you, so why blame Americans? BLAME THOSE RICH MONEY/POWER HUNGRY MF'ers THAT DICTATE POLICY IN AMERICA, AND NOT AMERICA IN AND OF ITSELF, AS IF IT WERE ONE COMPLETE UNIT, IT IS NOT!

If you pissed me off bad enough I wouldn't blame NZ, I'd blame YOU!

All I'm asking is for you to raise your articulation up a notch.

And while you may think my request is trivial, because we both know what you initially meant, who knows who's listening that's not as smart, taking it literally, then coming over here to blow something up, maybe the shopping center I happen to be in, while I'm window shopping for food I can't afford, hoping someone will throw me a scrap. Do the dumb dessert rats really need anymore ammunition? (those that it applies to only, you know who you are.)
The point is, riots can be instigated, with such talk. What's wrong with more intelligent articulation, that spells things out, even for the not so smart eavesdroppers?

You can do anything you want, I just prefer not to offend anyone accidentally, because I'm too lazy to: "say what I mean, and mean what I say!"

You'll never hear me say that a country sucks.[/quote]
You are not america , I have a lot more respect for you than I do america ,
I always suggest those with the brains to see , should step up to the plate and lead ,
if all the people like you in america , sit back and let them away with it ,
nothing changes , you didn't get up and tell us how corrupt america is , you don't seem to want change ,
if I'm not happy with a situation , I say so ,
when did you get up and ,as I have many times here ,
written to your president/priminister ,raising your concerns ,
got on nation wide talk back radio and expressed your concerns ,
what have you personally done to change the situation MATE ,

[SpheresOfBalance]

SoB's responses are sequentially: black, red, blue

GF: america is in my opinion ,
the most corrupt western nation ,
the most backward western nation ,
the most religious western nation ,
the fattest western nation , the most obese ,
america is a great example ,,,of what NOT TO DO .

SoB: Thanks Godfree,

I say nice things about NZ and you clobber where I live. Thanks my friend!

It's a shame that you are only ever able to see things in such absolute terms, when it's impossible for them to be as such. America is not one thing. It is a land of a great many people, all just as much an individual as you are, sure anyone can apply grouping and find any number of those of which you have spoken, but there are a lot more different types of groups, than you have mentioned. What of the American Indian tribes? What of the Homosexuals and Bisexuals? What of her lands, with the tallest trees on earth that are also some of the very oldest, dating back over 2000 years? Your stereotypical behavior, if far below any true philosopher I'd ever come to respect. Because anyone that can only see with such blinders, is very far away from ever understanding what philosophy really is. I hope you shall eventually reconsider, for your sake alone.

SoB: Godfree you put down "America," and I am an American.

GF: I'm happy to discuss either of those issues I raised ,
do you deny america is the most corrupt western nation ,,???
to be honest , you know , if I may speak frankly here , not that I know any other sort ,
I am dis-appointed in america , let down , so much potential , such opportunity ,
you killed the electric car ,,,!!!!!
SoB: And this REALLY PISSED ME THE FUCK OFF, I could have choked GM's CEO. (which is not America)
GF: insisted on the large coke ,,,!!!
SoB: I used to partake, but now either don't buy one and drink H2O or order a medium, (Too many restaurants to count). (Again, NOT America)
GF: capitalism is out of control in america ,
SoB: I fucking HATE capitalism, but I'm forced to live under it's grip, I know of no viable replacement, that most would accept. (Again, not America, as America is one hell of a lot more than merely capitalism.)
GF: it's not the politicians that decide things , it's big business ,
SoB: Don't get me fucking started, I think the next time one of them starts a recession, someone should pop the rich CEO MF'er in the head. (massively over dramatized, but you get the idea) (Again not America)
GF: the top tax rate was put down because big business told the government to do so ,
SoB: Do you really think any of this makes me happy? (again not America)
GF: it happened in Russia to , greedy capitalists , out of control ...
SoB: Again, couldn't agree with you more. (not America)

Why is it not the fault of America, because I'm a part of America, and there are many more like me, that agree with you, so why blame Americans? BLAME THOSE RICH MONEY/POWER HUNGRY MF'ers THAT DICTATE POLICY IN AMERICA, AND NOT AMERICA IN AND OF ITSELF, AS IF IT WERE ONE COMPLETE UNIT, IT IS NOT!

If you pissed me off bad enough I wouldn't blame NZ, I'd blame YOU!

All I'm asking is for you to raise your articulation up a notch.

And while you may think my request is trivial, because we both know what you initially meant, who knows who's listening that's not as smart, taking it literally, then coming over here to blow something up, maybe the shopping center I happen to be in, while I'm window shopping for food I can't afford, hoping someone will throw me a scrap. Do the dumb dessert rats really need anymore ammunition? (those that it applies to only, you know who you are.)
The point is, riots can be instigated, with such talk. What's wrong with more intelligent articulation, that spells things out, even for the not so smart eavesdroppers?

You can do anything you want, I just prefer not to offend anyone accidentally, because I'm too lazy to: "say what I mean, and mean what I say!"

You'll never hear me say that a country sucks.
GF: You are not america , I have a lot more respect for you than I do america ,
I always suggest those with the brains to see , should step up to the plate and lead ,
if all the people like you in america , sit back and let them away with it ,
nothing changes , you didn't get up and tell us how corrupt america is , you don't seem to want change ,
if I'm not happy with a situation , I say so ,
when did you get up and ,as I have many times here ,
written to your president/priminister ,raising your concerns ,
got on nation wide talk back radio and expressed your concerns ,
what have you personally done to change the situation MATE ,[/quote]
SoB: I want change alright, and I won't make excuses as to why I'm not some leader running the revolution. The truth is, that there are many things that make me different than you, and vise-verse. And there are many things that others in other countries, with problems more urgent than yours, will do that you won't do. Because the level of urgency is of most importance. If there was sufficient need for me to become this activist leader, I know I'd rise to the occasion, one way or another.

But regardless of my particular level of involvement, why would/should you or anyone else label me, via labeling the country I live in, as being the problem, while we as victims may not or may have done something in defense, that you approve of, as if your type of dealing with it, is the measure of excellence, in which all others must be judged. What should the American Indians do, locked up on reservations for 200 years, their land, freedom and way of life stripped from them, or else be killed as savages?

I'm not saying that victims should do nothing, just that whatever they do, whether it meets another's standards or not, they surely shouldn't be judged, just as bad as those that victimized them. And that anyone that believes otherwise, is being short sighted and selfish.

So what would you, who professes to know what America should do, change so as to set things right? I expect a comprehensive set of essays detailing all the finer points of contention and solution, as to those problems that you have mentioned above.

[Godfree]

You'll never hear me say that a country sucks.[/color]
GF: You are not america , I have a lot more respect for you than I do america ,
I always suggest those with the brains to see , should step up to the plate and lead ,
if all the people like you in america , sit back and let them away with it ,
nothing changes , you didn't get up and tell us how corrupt america is , you don't seem to want change ,
if I'm not happy with a situation , I say so ,
when did you get up and ,as I have many times here ,
written to your president/priminister ,raising your concerns ,
got on nation wide talk back radio and expressed your concerns ,
what have you personally done to change the situation MATE ,[/quote]
SoB: I want change alright, and I won't make excuses as to why I'm not some leader running the revolution. The truth is, that there are many things that make me different than you, and vise-verse. And there are many things that others in other countries, with problems more urgent than yours, will do that you won't do. Because the level of urgency is of most importance. If there was sufficient need for me to become this activist leader, I know I'd rise to the occasion, one way or another.

But regardless of my particular level of involvement, why would/should you or anyone else label me, via labeling the country I live in, as being the problem, while we as victims may not or may have done something in defense, that you approve of, as if your type of dealing with it, is the measure of excellence, in which all others must be judged. What should the American Indians do, locked up on reservations for 200 years, their land, freedom and way of life stripped from them, or else be killed as savages?

I'm not saying that victims should do nothing, just that whatever they do, whether it meets another's standards or not, they surely shouldn't be judged, just as bad as those that victimized them. And that anyone that believes otherwise, is being short sighted and selfish.

So what would you, who professes to know what America should do, change so as to set things right? I expect a comprehensive set of essays detailing all the finer points of contention and solution, as to those problems that you have mentioned above.[/quote]

There are lots of things we can do on many levels , socially , speak your mind , don't pretend ,,!!
during Helen Clarks time as PM here , I wrote to her more than 50 times ,
I spoke on national talk back hundreds of times ,
I saw ads for christian flatemates in the local newspaper ,
so I advertised for an Atheist , "someone who lives in the real world"
the paper refused to run it , until I challenged them and said ,
so you will be removing all the christian flatemate ads then ???
you can challenge the madness on almost any or every level ,
reality is , most just don't want to risk their ,
career , their reputation , family will dis-approve ,
as long as people like you maintain the stance that it isn't important enough to put my head on the block ,
then nothing will change .

[Kuznetzova]

I understand that the subject matter in this thread has drifted far afield from the original post. But just an additional two cents on the original topic,

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11352

[Godfree]

I understand that the subject matter in this thread has drifted far afield from the original post. But just an additional two cents on the original topic,

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11352

I tend to have a few pet subjects , that pop up on either thread it seems ,
religion , and the universe , the big questions , I'm still unsure as to what you believe ,
despite some great references , URL's , to me seeing the whole picture is the most important ,
to look at any one subject in isolation doesn't help the bigger picture ,
the red shift is used as proof the universe is expanding , not true not proof ,
religion requires there to have been a moment of creation , a beginning ,
otherwise whats god for , if the universe always existed ,
then whats gods role , ,,so they want there to be no universe , and then god makes/creates it ,
and isn't that exactly the bbt ,
in reality there was no beginning and there will be no end ,
so I easily dismiss anything with a beginning , an ending , or a god in it ,,!!!

[jackles]

Cosmic drama .man.it the universe expands in a cosmicaly dramatic way.

[SpheresOfBalance]

I understand that the subject matter in this thread has drifted far afield from the original post. But just an additional two cents on the original topic,

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11352

I tend to have a few pet subjects , that pop up on either thread it seems ,
religion , and the universe , the big questions , I'm still unsure as to what you believe ,
despite some great references , URL's , to me seeing the whole picture is the most important ,
to look at any one subject in isolation doesn't help the bigger picture ,
the red shift is used as proof the universe is expanding , not true not proof ,
religion requires there to have been a moment of creation , a beginning ,
otherwise whats god for , if the universe always existed ,
then whats gods role , ,,so they want there to be no universe , and then god makes/creates it ,
and isn't that exactly the bbt ,
in reality there was no beginning and there will be no end ,
so I easily dismiss anything with a beginning , an ending , or a god in it ,,!!!

I'm particularly happy that K's news article backs your theory, because I've always wanted the cosmos to be infinite. Why? Because never ending is like way cool, because it's mind boggling!

[Godfree]

I understand that the subject matter in this thread has drifted far afield from the original post. But just an additional two cents on the original topic,

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11352

I tend to have a few pet subjects , that pop up on either thread it seems ,
religion , and the universe , the big questions , I'm still unsure as to what you believe ,
despite some great references , URL's , to me seeing the whole picture is the most important ,
to look at any one subject in isolation doesn't help the bigger picture ,
the red shift is used as proof the universe is expanding , not true not proof ,
religion requires there to have been a moment of creation , a beginning ,
otherwise whats god for , if the universe always existed ,
then whats gods role , ,,so they want there to be no universe , and then god makes/creates it ,
and isn't that exactly the bbt ,
in reality there was no beginning and there will be no end ,
so I easily dismiss anything with a beginning , an ending , or a god in it ,,!!!

I'm particularly happy that K's news article backs your theory, because I've always wanted the cosmos to be infinite. Why? Because never ending is like way cool, because it's mind boggling!

It changes everything ,, in philosophy , Astronomy ,
to accept the universe is infinite means we go back to the drawing board and start again ,
that all this bbt , expanding universe Olbers Paradox , NONSENSE , can finally be dismissed ,
and we can get down to painting the REAL PICTURE ...

[James Markham]

Godfree, if you believe the universe is infinite, how do you explain something that was never created actually existing. If there is no point at which we can say things came together to form the universe, then we cannot say the universe was formed at all, and in that case it doesn't exist. That's clearly not true, so we must conclude that the universe has a finite history.