Egypt and democracy

[henry quirk]

"the ZERO funding that Atheism gets"

HA!

I'm atheistic.

Why do I need a dime of some one else's cash to 'not' believe in spooks?

#

"billions go into the church and religion"

Yep.

They shouldn’t get jack either.

[Godfree]

"the ZERO funding that Atheism gets"

HA!

I'm atheistic.

Why do I need a dime of some one else's cash to 'not' believe in spooks?

#

"billions go into the church and religion"

Yep.

They shouldn’t get jack either.

Yes ,, yes I agree , but HOW DO I TOPPLE THEM WITHOUT SOME FUNDING ,
they have the funding , , I can't compete with one of the most powerful businesses on the planet ,
in nz , if you donate $1000 , to your local church ,
at the end of the year you claim back 60% of that money , in effect that 60% still in the church ,
has come from the general tax take ,
I pay tax , my money is being used to build churches and religious institutions ,
thats wrong ,,either they stop funding religion ,
or make it possible for Atheists to have the same ,,!!!

[spike]

Prime Minister Erdogan of Turkey once said that democracy is like a train you get off when you arrive at the station. In other words, he believes that the democratic process is just about being elected and once elected, in a democratic fashion, you forget about it until the next election. This is how Morsi and his followers in Egypt see democracy; it is just about being elected and nothing more. For these men (Putin of Russia is another one) democracy is just a means to and end - legitimately gaining the opportunity to consolidate power.

Erdogan is wrong. Democracy is an ongoing proposition. Democracy is also about being accountable and transparent with the people. But he ignores that part. When journalists try to keep his government accountable and transparent, and challenge his authority, they are arrested and thrown in jail. Turkey has more journalist in prison than any other country.

One of Erdogan's ministers said that those journalist in jail are not real journalist. I guess if people reporting in the media and the press disagree with you they are not true journalists, because they aren't towing the party line. While in office Morsi of Egypt tried to do the same thing.

[henry quirk]

"HOW DO I TOPPLE THEM WITHOUT SOME FUNDING "

"I pay tax"

Oh, you can indulge the impulse to 'war', or, you can work to minimize the amount of your money that goes to prop up institutions you don't support.

Indifference comes easy once you're not invested.

[spike]

Indifference comes easy once you're not invested.

That is why it is important to have 'skin in the game'.

[henry quirk]

If the 'game' offers me no profit: why play?

*shrug*

[henry quirk]

Moreover: when the 'game' is crafted by others, for their benefit: why should I play?

The best strategy is making their 'game' unimportant.

In the context of GF's problem: the best strategy is reducing the amount of his cash that goes to fund that which he opposes.

In other words: if he ain't payin' for it, then why the hell should he care?

[Godfree]

Moreover: when the 'game' is crafted by others, for their benefit: why should I play?

The best strategy is making their 'game' unimportant.

In the context of GF's problem: the best strategy is reducing the amount of his cash that goes to fund that which he opposes.

In other words: if he ain't payin' for it, then why the hell should he care?

My government takes money I and the rest of NZ have paid in as tax ,
and gives some of it to religious leaders , I can't stop this , I am trying ,,
I also can't get my government to give me an Atheist the same rights ,
this is not a democracy it is a religious dictatorship ,
and just as a muslim doesn't see islam as a dictatorship ,
christians don't see religious fundamentalist dictatorships as undemocratic .

[Arising_uk]

Start your own Atheist Society and register it as a charity and I presume you'll get the tax-breaks if you can find those who'll join and subscribe. Of course you'll have to do good works.

[Godfree]

Start your own Atheist Society and register it as a charity and I presume you'll get the tax-breaks if you can find those who'll join and subscribe. Of course you'll have to do good works.

Thats exactly what I tried to do , an Atheist charitable trust ,
the Companies Office here in NZ , my aims/concept ,,,unlawful ,
I cannot get a charitable trust as an Atheist , I can as a Skeptic or Humanist ,
these people don't want to get rid of religion they are just Skeptical of everyone ,
so not a threat to religion as such , Atheists are the only ones who say religion is madness ,
so Atheists will never get charitable trusts because charitable trusts are a scam ,
set up to fund religion secretly or quietly so most people don't notice ,
my government starts parliament with a prayer , and then claims to be secular ,
what a piece of bullshit ,

[spike]

Start your own Atheist Society and register it as a charity and I presume you'll get the tax-breaks if you can find those who'll join and subscribe. Of course you'll have to do good works.

I wonder what that has to do with the subject at hand? It doesn't mention Egypt or Democracy. That should be a prerequisite.

[henry quirk]

GF,

It sounds like what you're sayin' is: 'it's unfair!'

If so: get used to it.

Living is an exercise in inequity.

Again: minimize, to the extent you can (or, that you dare to) what you pay into the system.

Seems silly, to me, to attempt to form a tax-exempt atheist organization when, by your account, you live in the midst of "a religious dictatorship".

#

Egypt: again, every one who isn't 'there' needs to mind his or her own business and let those folks get on with doin' with whatever the hell it is they want to try.

If Egypt wants to go sharia, it will...when and if that happens, other folks (like Israel) can respond (and self-defend) accordingly.

[Godfree]

GF,

It sounds like what you're sayin' is: 'it's unfair!'

If so: get used to it.

Living is an exercise in inequity.

Again: minimize, to the extent you can (or, that you dare to) what you pay into the system.

Seems silly, to me, to attempt to form a tax-exempt atheist organization when, by your account, you live in the midst of "a religious dictatorship".

#

Egypt: again, every one who isn't 'there' needs to mind his or her own business and let those folks get on with doin' with whatever the hell it is they want to try.

If Egypt wants to go sharia, it will...when and if that happens, other folks (like Israel) can respond (and self-defend) accordingly.

When pointing out discrimination by governments , all I'm trying to achieve ,
is to increase the awareness that this is the case ,
people tend to live in a bubble , lost in their own little world and don't know about all the new knowledge ,
Egypt , what a mess , it would seem wherever there is a muslim political party ,
there is war , a dictatorship , or suicide bombs going off just to keep people on their toes ,
I posted over a year ago ,
these democratic elections are just an excuse for the muslim brotherhood to muscle their way into power ,
they used the arab spring , to spring the muslim agenda ,
so just incase you can't work it out ,
RELIGION IS A DICTATORSHIP ,
it only comes in one form ,
so to say christian democracy ,
I say religious dictatorship

[Arising_uk]

I wonder what that has to do with the subject at hand? It doesn't mention Egypt or Democracy. That should be a prerequisite.

It was a reply to godfree's repeated cry that he can't get funding nor tax-breaks for being an atheist.

Still, I take your point, so your original thread says how democracy doesn't work like Morsi did but the history of our democracy shows it working exactly like this for a long time. So why not for them?

[Godfree]

I wonder what that has to do with the subject at hand? It doesn't mention Egypt or Democracy. That should be a prerequisite.

It was a reply to godfree's repeated cry that he can't get funding nor tax-breaks for being an atheist.

Still, I take your point, so your original thread says how democracy doesn't work like Morsi did but the history of our democracy shows it working exactly like this for a long time. So why not for them?

Our democracy "working" , really , you think what we have is working ,
not from where I sit , our democracy works if you are rich and powerful ,
religious , or in the right gang ,
but if you are Atheist , single ,independent , not affiliated ,
you will find the system can and will ignore you if it chooses to do so .
my rights in one of the most trusted and un corrupt democracies in the world ,
are being walked all over often , as an Atheist , as a member of the public trying to get ,
medical attention at a government funded hospital ,
in my opinion , what we have in the west ,
IS NOT WORKING NOT HERE, NZ, NOT AMERICA , NOT ANYWHERE