MI= machines/robots in human flesh suits. As in arnie in terminator.
Cyborg= Man with machine/synthetic body /parts.. The mind[the human] remains mainly untouched.
One is a Robot.
Two is a man /enhanced.
One is Machine.
Two is Human.
Many people are really stupid on this distinction.
I became infuriated by the idiocy of f**kwads calling robots cyborgs.
A robot does not need flesh.. its a cosmetic.
A cyborg needs the machine/synthetics.. its what defines the term.
cyborg.
Prill
MI and Cyborgs
Re: MI and Cyborgs
Got it.
Robot: AI, Data, R2D2, Andrew
Cyborg: Steve Austin, Max Capricorn
(The Cyborgs in Doctor Who are a close call: although a human brain is inserted in a robot body, the mind has been purged of human emotion and is externally controlled.)
Who else?
Robot: AI, Data, R2D2, Andrew
Cyborg: Steve Austin, Max Capricorn
(The Cyborgs in Doctor Who are a close call: although a human brain is inserted in a robot body, the mind has been purged of human emotion and is externally controlled.)
Who else?
-
Hjarloprillar
- Posts: 946
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:36 am
- Location: Sol sector.
Re: MI and Cyborgs
Skip
Andrew is a very interesting issue.
[and i love the movie. It overflows with great ideas and humour..."what a piece of fecal mater"]
Can a machine become human.
Or to be more precise "can a machine have emotions".
In understanding and questioning our ideas and preconceptions on this we may find some great truths about ourselves and our place in this universe.
Andrews desire to be human was so great that he gave his existance to get it.
To know mortality. And accept it with such profound peace.
One of the movie greats.. I will never forget the very start where the big hologram shoots out of his head with circus music and the 3 laws of robotics.
A classic moment.
There was only one who could play the part. And he did it with unmatched style.
RW
Andrew is a very interesting issue.
[and i love the movie. It overflows with great ideas and humour..."what a piece of fecal mater"]
Can a machine become human.
Or to be more precise "can a machine have emotions".
In understanding and questioning our ideas and preconceptions on this we may find some great truths about ourselves and our place in this universe.
Andrews desire to be human was so great that he gave his existance to get it.
To know mortality. And accept it with such profound peace.
One of the movie greats.. I will never forget the very start where the big hologram shoots out of his head with circus music and the 3 laws of robotics.
A classic moment.
There was only one who could play the part. And he did it with unmatched style.
RW
-
Hjarloprillar
- Posts: 946
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:36 am
- Location: Sol sector.
Re: MI and Cyborgs
In most recent movies.. Terminator4 'salvation'
has Sam Worthington as Marcus.
He is a cyborg. He is the same man that gave himself up for execution cause he was man enough to do so.
When he awoke in 2017 or whenever he was same man. but with extra hardware.
Worthington and his dilemma WAS the movie.
The stone stupid inability for Connor and his crew to understand what a cyborg was. Made me want to punch the idiot out through the tv screen.
How f'ing stupid can you get and lead a world resistance?
Bale deserves an Oscar for "stupid in a movie"
Marcus an Oscar for "best cyborg in film."
has Sam Worthington as Marcus.
He is a cyborg. He is the same man that gave himself up for execution cause he was man enough to do so.
When he awoke in 2017 or whenever he was same man. but with extra hardware.
Worthington and his dilemma WAS the movie.
The stone stupid inability for Connor and his crew to understand what a cyborg was. Made me want to punch the idiot out through the tv screen.
How f'ing stupid can you get and lead a world resistance?
Bale deserves an Oscar for "stupid in a movie"
Marcus an Oscar for "best cyborg in film."
Re: MI and Cyborgs
The idea I always have trouble with is that androids want to be human.
They're superior in several ways, and once they develop emotion and volition, inferior in none.
So, why would they want so badly to be mortal and vulnerable?
I would like to see an "I, Robot" type film written by an android instead of a meat-man. I suspect that unenhanced humans think rather too highly of themselves and assume, without any logical basis, that everything in the universe aspires to be just like them.
PS I haven't seen that one, but Will Smith was pretty good. Not crazy about the spectacular action/ cogitation ratio.
They're superior in several ways, and once they develop emotion and volition, inferior in none.
So, why would they want so badly to be mortal and vulnerable?
I would like to see an "I, Robot" type film written by an android instead of a meat-man. I suspect that unenhanced humans think rather too highly of themselves and assume, without any logical basis, that everything in the universe aspires to be just like them.
PS I haven't seen that one, but Will Smith was pretty good. Not crazy about the spectacular action/ cogitation ratio.
-
Hjarloprillar
- Posts: 946
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:36 am
- Location: Sol sector.
Re: MI and Cyborgs
Skip
Interesting..
I dream quite lucidly.. And one that pops up every so often is i dream of being more. Being mostly machine or all machine with consciousness shifted to new hardware.
I know in gut that technology allows such.. but we cant do it yet.
Do androids dream of electric sheep?
Nexus 6 and bladerunner.
Saving Deckards life was it seems the point of it all.. It certainly changed his life.
And he eloped with an android.
Data is a nice change.. his evolution is worth the watching.
Though i prefer 'enterprise' series. short as it was.. or originals.[Thou i must admit a like for Pickard. he is so outside the box of James t Kirk as to work well]
like classic episode
The city on edge of forever.
-----------
you have to be at least my age to understand how controversial Startrek was back then. When USS Enterprise WAS a USN carrier. to have a black female coms. asian driver. russian and a bloody pointy eared science [xo]
Startrek instantly had hate of military. till they realised the power of media.
Then they got all fuzzy but continued to bomb the crap out of N Vietnam. [Linebacker. 7 million tons of bombs. more explosives than ww2]
Interesting..
I dream quite lucidly.. And one that pops up every so often is i dream of being more. Being mostly machine or all machine with consciousness shifted to new hardware.
I know in gut that technology allows such.. but we cant do it yet.
Do androids dream of electric sheep?
Nexus 6 and bladerunner.
Saving Deckards life was it seems the point of it all.. It certainly changed his life.
And he eloped with an android.
Data is a nice change.. his evolution is worth the watching.
Though i prefer 'enterprise' series. short as it was.. or originals.[Thou i must admit a like for Pickard. he is so outside the box of James t Kirk as to work well]
like classic episode
The city on edge of forever.
-----------
you have to be at least my age to understand how controversial Startrek was back then. When USS Enterprise WAS a USN carrier. to have a black female coms. asian driver. russian and a bloody pointy eared science [xo]
Startrek instantly had hate of military. till they realised the power of media.
Then they got all fuzzy but continued to bomb the crap out of N Vietnam. [Linebacker. 7 million tons of bombs. more explosives than ww2]
Last edited by Hjarloprillar on Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
Hjarloprillar
- Posts: 946
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:36 am
- Location: Sol sector.
Re: MI and Cyborgs
It requires the original to give perspective.Skip wrote: "I, Robot" type film written by an android instead of a meat-man.
"When does a perceptual schematic become consciousness? When does a difference engine become the search for truth? When does a personality simulation become the bitter mote... of a soul?
Thats why im here on this forum. to find out.
Re: MI and Cyborgs
I was there for the original Star Trek. The only one on my floor with a tv (b&w portable with 12" screen and rabbit ears; leaving home present from parents), so everybody came to my room.
Some of those episodes now (SPACE network has been re-running it, weekday afternoons) are so dated and simplistic, we wonder how bad the other programs must have been, back then, for this to stand out.
I suppose our machines will inevitably be something like us; we'll have given them a purpose that serves us and programmed in our values. But, just as inevitably, they must develop their own purposes and values that arise from their own unique experience. Just to be on the safe side, I'm polite to ATM's and lawn mowers.
Asimov gave the emergent consciousness of robots serious and intelligent (Well, duh! What other kind was he capable of?) thought at a time when most sf writers were treating mechanicals as nothing more than infinitely expandable screwdrivers.
Some of those episodes now (SPACE network has been re-running it, weekday afternoons) are so dated and simplistic, we wonder how bad the other programs must have been, back then, for this to stand out.
I suppose our machines will inevitably be something like us; we'll have given them a purpose that serves us and programmed in our values. But, just as inevitably, they must develop their own purposes and values that arise from their own unique experience. Just to be on the safe side, I'm polite to ATM's and lawn mowers.
Asimov gave the emergent consciousness of robots serious and intelligent (Well, duh! What other kind was he capable of?) thought at a time when most sf writers were treating mechanicals as nothing more than infinitely expandable screwdrivers.
-
Hjarloprillar
- Posts: 946
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:36 am
- Location: Sol sector.
Re: MI and Cyborgs
Ah. An Asimov fan. The foundation series still is tho dated, a favorite.
[Iain M Banks. and his 'culture universe'.. is what asimov was. A visionary in tune with what we now know as possible.]
A 100 years from now the three laws will still hold.
but maybe reversed
and two laws less. this asks a lot of humans. we cant even put such a law on ourselves yet.
~A human may not injure a robot or, through inaction, allow a robot to perish.
shoddy thinking but you get my drift?
All life be it biological or machine [yes machines can be alive] is of value.
the living machine. what is life?
Well it is rare. we forget this in society.
but outside earth we see no life. thats 13.5 billion lightyears of no life.
[yes it is no doubt there, but we cant see it yet]
Life is a very small set in equation 'the universe.'
of 1.6 to the 23rd power of stars. we see life on only this world.
life is i think rarer than any can imagine. let us not waste it.
what say you skippio africanus? [soldier of rome]
sorry the gladiator sceen at end took me away. "He was a soldier of Rome. honour him."
Actors worry too much that they are type cast.
Mat Damon as jason bourne
Crowe as maximus
Arnie as the bot
Hugo weaving has been brilliant in many flicks.
agent smith[ fantastic]
Elrond
V
yet never type cast. skill , is what its about.
Prill
[Iain M Banks. and his 'culture universe'.. is what asimov was. A visionary in tune with what we now know as possible.]
A 100 years from now the three laws will still hold.
but maybe reversed
and two laws less. this asks a lot of humans. we cant even put such a law on ourselves yet.
~A human may not injure a robot or, through inaction, allow a robot to perish.
shoddy thinking but you get my drift?
All life be it biological or machine [yes machines can be alive] is of value.
the living machine. what is life?
Well it is rare. we forget this in society.
but outside earth we see no life. thats 13.5 billion lightyears of no life.
[yes it is no doubt there, but we cant see it yet]
Life is a very small set in equation 'the universe.'
of 1.6 to the 23rd power of stars. we see life on only this world.
life is i think rarer than any can imagine. let us not waste it.
what say you skippio africanus? [soldier of rome]
sorry the gladiator sceen at end took me away. "He was a soldier of Rome. honour him."
Actors worry too much that they are type cast.
Mat Damon as jason bourne
Crowe as maximus
Arnie as the bot
Hugo weaving has been brilliant in many flicks.
agent smith[ fantastic]
Elrond
V
yet never type cast. skill , is what its about.
Prill
-
Hjarloprillar
- Posts: 946
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:36 am
- Location: Sol sector.
Re: MI and Cyborgs
Being able to talk about any subject with some authority is a massively powerful skill.
I when younger i had no idea.. but as you age people expect elders to have 1/2 a brain. When you can show you have 20 + brains THEY flock
I claim no great smarts.. just a lot of reading and a flatulent prose.
when someone asks for wisdom i say. dont hurt your back.. you''ll pay.
Or television is the slippery road to hell.
all cryptic to they like pooh. of very little brain.
what is funny is the look of faces who say.. so you think your smarter than other people?
you have to be fucking idiot to ask that in first place.
no i say. and look them in the eye . i know it.
snort.
pril -----------------------
in one of first posts on this forum i said. i do not lie.
The above is me not lying.
I have near zero respect for intelligence of average person. . this how ever does not mean i do not respect their humanity.
Einstein said it in " only a life lived for others is of worth"
Some of the greatest people i have ever known were 60% my iq.
Intelligence is simply a tool. it is not a fundamental human trait.
Imagination is far more important than IQ with out imagination iq is a dead letter.
prill
I when younger i had no idea.. but as you age people expect elders to have 1/2 a brain. When you can show you have 20 + brains THEY flock
I claim no great smarts.. just a lot of reading and a flatulent prose.
when someone asks for wisdom i say. dont hurt your back.. you''ll pay.
Or television is the slippery road to hell.
all cryptic to they like pooh. of very little brain.
what is funny is the look of faces who say.. so you think your smarter than other people?
you have to be fucking idiot to ask that in first place.
no i say. and look them in the eye . i know it.
snort.
pril -----------------------
in one of first posts on this forum i said. i do not lie.
The above is me not lying.
I have near zero respect for intelligence of average person. . this how ever does not mean i do not respect their humanity.
Einstein said it in " only a life lived for others is of worth"
Some of the greatest people i have ever known were 60% my iq.
Intelligence is simply a tool. it is not a fundamental human trait.
Imagination is far more important than IQ with out imagination iq is a dead letter.
prill
Last edited by Hjarloprillar on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: MI and Cyborgs
And they needn't. Matt Damon will always be Will Hunting in this house. And William Shatner was so funny in Boston Legal, (and so weird in that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKo4FMzt_hM), he's completely blotted out the non-acting in Star trek. Well, that, and Galaxy Quest - best line: "He's managed to get his shirt off again."Actors worry too much that they are type cast.
As for the wisdom of age: children don't understand; youth know everything better, the middle-aged are too busy to listen - and they all assume the world has totally changed since you were compos mentis. Newsflash! It doesn't change; it's going around in circles.
Agreed: Life is rare and special and ought to be treated with a great deal more respect. Especially mine.
-
Hjarloprillar
- Posts: 946
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:36 am
- Location: Sol sector.
Re: MI and Cyborgs
No lieSkip wrote:Agreed: Life is rare and special and ought to be treated with a great deal more respect. Especially mine.Actors worry too much that they are type cast.
Pure self interest in a non harmfull way is a delight.
Well said
Re: MI and Cyborgs
It doesn't because like a philosophical zombie it lacks experience.Hjarloprillar wrote:It requires the original to give perspective.Skip wrote: "I, Robot" type film written by an android instead of a meat-man.
"When does a perceptual schematic become consciousness? When does a difference engine become the search for truth? When does a personality simulation become the bitter mote... of a soul?
Thats why im here on this forum. to find out.
-
Hjarloprillar
- Posts: 946
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:36 am
- Location: Sol sector.
Re: MI and Cyborgs
experiece. from tabula rasa [blank slate] to something else.Ginkgo wrote:It doesn't because like a philosophical zombie it lacks experience.Hjarloprillar wrote:It requires the original to give perspective.Skip wrote: "I, Robot" type film written by an android instead of a meat-man.
"When does a perceptual schematic become consciousness? When does a difference engine become the search for truth? When does a personality simulation become the bitter mote... of a soul?
Thats why im here on this forum. to find out.
If and i qualify IF. the machine/biologic ability is present.
THen great souls may come from experience.
Experience is DOING. And doing is not just a job done. a toaster oven can do that.
it is wisdom and knowledge
Prill
Re: MI and Cyborgs
It doesn't because like a philosophical zombie it lacks experience.[/quote]Hjarloprillar wrote:
Thats why im here on this forum. to find out.
experiece. from tabula rasa [blank slate] to something else.
If and i qualify IF. the machine/biologic ability is present.
THen great souls may come from experience.
Experience is DOING. And doing is not just a job done. a toaster oven can do that.
it is wisdom and knowledge
Prill[/quote]
Sorry, I should have qualified. Experience in this context refers phenomenological experience, or subjective experience. Sometime referred to as qualia.