Clark and Dawe - The Unsung Hero of Modern Political Life

[The Voice of Time]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiNvWNbNj74

Video is 2 minutes 23 seconds long, it's a weekly comedy-show usually parodying political life in Australia and the world at large.

My question is: how healthy is it that bureaucrats and technocrats do as their boss tells them to, or "nod" as they say in the show, show their passive or active support, and are informally or formally restrained from taking influential value-judgements of their own and openly publicly dispute decisions, policies and political courses of action? Can anyone imagine that it would be bad if the bureaucracy of any state was free to criticize top decisions on any level they liked and even use their own power to work against decisions they did not like? Almost like a superplural division of power... ?

[bobevenson]

Hey, I don't care where you work, telling your boss about his shortcomings will not enhance your career, if you still have one.

[The Voice of Time]

Depends upon the moral of the organization. If you are good at your job you should keep it and progress in it. It shouldn't be a question of whether the boss personality likes you or not, that's degraded.

[bobevenson]

If you are good at your job you should keep it and progress in it. It shouldn't be a question of whether the boss personally likes you or not.

Welcome to the real world, my friend.

[The Voice of Time]

In Norway you can sue your boss if it can be proven he/she fired you on biased grounds. My mother got sued by her employee after she fired them for lazyiness (and watching porn during work) on the grounds that her firing document was not "written correctly in accordance with the law", and her former employees got something like just beneath 10 000 dollars in damage costs because of it.

I am certainly living in the real world, it's just a world somewhat different by experience from yours. Workers are heavily protected in Norway, for instance, normal termination of work contracts is 3 months after the worker has gained permanent employment and is no longer working temporarily or on trial.

[bobevenson]

In Norway you can sue your boss if it can be proven he/she fired you on biased grounds. My mother got sued by her employee after she fired them for lazyiness (and watching porn during work) on the grounds that her firing document was not "written correctly in accordance with the law", and her former employees got something like just beneath 10 000 dollars in damage costs because of it.

I am certainly living in the real world, it's just a world somewhat different by experience from yours. Workers are heavily protected in Norway, for instance, normal termination of work contracts is 3 months after the worker has gained permanent employment and is no longer working temporarily or on trial.

The real world is a world of free-market capitalism, where you can fire somebody if you don't like the way he combs his fucking hair. Norway is a make-believe world of hard-core socialism, where you can be sued for farting.

[The Voice of Time]

Norway is the second richest country in the world after Qatar (and city-states like Liechtenstein). Think about that. With one of the strongest currencies in the world, a huge government surplus despite one of the most generous and extensive welfare systems in the world, a stable and growing economy despite the rest of Europe, and one of the highest de facto (by practice and not by law) minimum wages in the world.

On the list of countries surpassing the US you find Sweden and Denmark as well, if you think oil is everything. Both Sweden and Denmark follow the same model as Norway (the Nordic model) and it seems to serve them quite well.

[bobevenson]

Norway is the second richest country in the world after Qatar (and city-states like Liechtenstein). Think about that. With one of the strongest currencies in the world, a huge government surplus despite one of the most generous and extensive welfare systems in the world, a stable and growing economy despite the rest of Europe, and one of the highest de facto (by practice and not by law) minimum wages in the world.

On the list of countries surpassing the US you find Sweden and Denmark as well, if you think oil is everything. Both Sweden and Denmark follow the same model as Norway (the Nordic model) and it seems to serve them quite well.

By the way, what's your tax rate? You've got a strong economy, all right. Unfortunately, I can't remember the last time I bought anything made in Norway. Oh, that's right, I've never bought anything made in Norway!

[The Voice of Time]

tax-laws are complicated.

Basically, roughly speaking, up to about 70 000 USDs you pay something like 1/3 in taxes for personal income tax, and about half for the amount in excess of that amount (we basically only have to stages in taxation, excluding incomes at a bit less than 10 000 USDs which are not taxed), about 1/4 in corporate flat-rate taxes.

But included in this is a society spanning a huge amount of free or highly subsidized (and therefore highly accessible) range of services. I'm not gonna mention even a part of them because I've mentioned them many times

Norwegian industry is not based on mass-consumer markets, that's why you don't see Norwegian wares. Shipping, from building to operating, is a large part of the coast business, and is one of the biggest in the world (as I've mentioned countless times now already, Norway has a merchant fleet which is currently 75% of the size of entire China, a 1.3 billion people country versus little Norway at 5 million), and then we have a lot of specialized firms, the local place where I come from three notable industrial businesses is worth mentioning: Mustad, which was the world's first company to produce fish-hooks on machinated assembly line started in my hometown, then there's a production and research facility for airport runway clearer (clears snow and wetness, good business but niche market), and Raufoss Ammunition, which produces military equipment, most of whom are sold to the US, including missiles.

[bobevenson]

tax-laws are complicated.

Basically, roughly speaking, up to about 70 000 USDs you pay something like 1/3 in taxes for personal income tax, and about half for the amount in excess of that amount (we basically only have to stages in taxation, excluding incomes at a bit less than 10 000 USDs which are not taxed), about 1/4 in corporate flat-rate taxes.

But included in this is a society spanning a huge amount of free or highly subsidized (and therefore highly accessible) range of services. I'm not gonna mention even a part of them because I've mentioned them many times

Norwegian industry is not based on mass-consumer markets, that's why you don't see Norwegian wares. Shipping, from building to operating, is a large part of the coast business, and is one of the biggest in the world (as I've mentioned countless times now already, Norway has a merchant fleet which is currently 75% of the size of entire China, a 1.3 billion people country versus little Norway at 5 million), and then we have a lot of specialized firms, the local place where I come from three notable industrial businesses is worth mentioning: Mustad, which was the world's first company to produce fish-hooks on machinated assembly line started in my hometown, then there's a production and research facility for airport runway clearer (clears snow and wetness, good business but niche market), and Raufoss Ammunition, which produces military equipment, most of whom are sold to the US, including missiles.

All I can say is that in properly-run countries, of which there are zero at this point in time,
the government doesn't steal money from one person and give it to somebody else. Unfortunately, my friend, that is what Norwegian socialism is all about.

[The Voice of Time]

Yeah, but Norwegians continue to vote for the guys who take their money xD Hard to call it stealing then.

[bobevenson]

Yeah, but Norwegians continue to vote for the guys who take their money xD Hard to call it stealing then.

Well, it really doesn't matter if some people don't mind the government stealing from them, but if a single person objects, he is living under government oppression, pure and simple.

[The Voice of Time]

He can always go to another country. Settle and make his own little independent community on the eastern coast of Greenland even. Any property in Norway is only property because the state temporarily allows a person to exploit it, anyways. The land always belongs to the people, and the people choose who should specialize in governing the land, and elect those to govern it for them.

Basically, Norway is a stock company with 5 million shares minus anyone under 18.

[bobevenson]

He can always go to another country. Settle and make his own little independent community on the eastern coast of Greenland even. Any property in Norway is only property because the state temporarily allows a person to exploit it, anyways. The land always belongs to the people, and the people choose who should specialize in governing the land, and elect those to govern it for them.

Basically, Norway is a stock company with 5 million shares minus anyone under 18.

Why should anybody, anywhere, under government oppression, have to find another place to live? It's the oppressive government that should be brought down. You remind me of an old American slogan, "Love it or leave it!" You are obviously a sympathizer of government oppression, thinking the government owns everything and the people nothing. No wonder you see nothing wrong with Norway, like my grandparents did! Why don't you add "From each according to his abilities, and to each according to his needs" to your repertoire.

[The Voice of Time]

People own everything. The government is the people in serving a function on behalf of them. They are like the people's lawyer, speaking for them to fight their case. That it is not also your case, is your problem with your own countrymen, but I guess, when you share something with them, you tend to want it your way anyways.