Hi. Wow...

Tell us a little about yourself.

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Hi. Wow...

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Hjarloprillar wrote:"Sarcasm huh? You are either here to fight with you words, or you are here to edify with your words, your choice"

so its black or white?
i think not..
I an here simply so my thought as in words. Is recorded somewhere.
i argue little as what the fuck does it mater.
I have posts on science talking of singularities.
do i argue. no.. no-one denies them. As i have spent 30 years studying them.. it is no mystery.
yet the thing in-itself is. Beyond human understanding.

immanent death has a wy of bring out the true nature of one.
thus i love Oscar Wild
"
The dinner table was Wilde's event and made him the greatest talker of his time…
William Butler Yeats in Four Years (1891).

Any man that yeats would laud.. i want to speak with.

Wildes deathbead "My wallpaper and I are fighting a duel to the death. One or the other of us has to go."

comedy in last words..A sign of TRUE humanity
I'm sorry!


Surround yourself with the beauty of nature and consume 'only' that of fresh organic raw plants, the other side of the animal EQUATION, and you shall be cured. Make no mistake, if you do not already know of this, it is true!


Then, and only then, shall we argue of the hypothetical, you have far more important things to consider.

Omit all processed foods, sugar, meat, dairy, alcohol, there will be plenty of time to treat yourself, once cured. Include only whole, fresh, organic, raw plant foods, including all fruits, vegetables, herbs and spices, and don't forget plenty of H2O, the life giver.

We shall beg to differ once you are cured!

In addition, you have to KNOW that you are guilty of no crime, that requires death as payment.
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Hjarloprillar
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Re: Hi. Wow...

Post by Hjarloprillar »

Wires crossed.

my action is to never again answer an SOB post. fear? no.. tired and weary of know it all's yes.
be well and i offered a ceasefire which you Ignor.

you attitude and vehemence. I am aspie 'asperges" I cannot hate.. in fact i have never hated.
I cannot love . whatever that means.

your vitriol is wasted here. boy
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Hi. Wow...

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Hjarloprillar wrote:Wires crossed.

my action is to never again answer an SOB post. fear? no.. tired and weary of know it all's yes.
be well and i offered a ceasefire which you Ignor.

you attitude and vehemence. I am aspie 'asperges" I cannot hate.. in fact i have never hated.
I cannot love . whatever that means.

your vitriol is wasted here. boy
I'm sorry!


Surround yourself with the beauty of nature and consume 'only' that of fresh organic raw plants, the other side of the animal EQUATION, and you shall be cured. Make no mistake, if you do not already know of this, it is true!


Then, and only then, shall we argue of the hypothetical, you have far more important things to consider.

Omit all processed foods, sugar, meat, dairy, alcohol, there will be plenty of time to treat yourself, once cured. Include only whole, fresh, organic, raw plant foods, including all fruits, vegetables, herbs and spices, and don't forget plenty of H2O, the life giver.

We shall beg to differ once you are cured!

In addition, you have to KNOW that you are guilty of no crime, that requires death as payment.

This, then, is the best thing I can do for you!
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Hi. Wow...

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Hjarloprillar wrote:Wires crossed.

my action is to never again answer an SOB post. fear? no.. tired and weary of know it all's yes.
be well and i offered a ceasefire which you Ignor.

you attitude and vehemence. I am aspie 'asperges" I cannot hate.. in fact i have never hated.
I cannot love . whatever that means.

your vitriol is wasted here. boy
Do you realize that to say what you said above in blue you'd have to be a know-it-all? How convenient, and as I said, seems to be your common theme.
homegrown
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Re: Hi. Wow...

Post by homegrown »

The Boston Bombers believed things that are not true. They did so within a society that upholds contrary myths. It's important to note that the contemporary situation that has evolved from Enlightenment principles was not at all what was intended by the writers of the Constitution. American freedom of conscience was framed to favour Protestantism relative to the dictatorial religious attitudes of England and Rome; not rational knowledge relative to religion. Now standing directly contrary to the dictatorial quality of Islamic religion - I understand the frustration that led the older brother to post on his facebook page: 'I have no American friends. I don't understand them. They have no values.' What the mind in the grip of Islamic doctrine fails to understand is that contemporary relativism allows the individual to reach their own accommodation with reality, as they see it.

While I accept there's a certain utilitarian virtue in this secular 'pursuit of happiness' - as a philosopher possessed of a highly valid perspective on reality, I too find a cultural insistence on relativism incredibly frustrating. One can debate - and with precise logic and hard fact, force someone to concede each tangled thread of their often incoherent, idle-minded prejudices, and at last resort - without fail be met with the same bald assertion that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Neither I, nor the Islamic extremist accept this. The difference between us is that because I'm right, I don't have to kill people to insist upon my views. The relation between the validity of the knowledge bases of action and causality is like a divine judgment, built into Creation. In danger of that smug attitude I so despise in religious people - (for me it's more like the pity of a parent for a small child whose just run headlong into the patio doors) - the Boston Bombers are socially psychotic chickens come home to roost. ('...And that's why we don't run in the house!') That's why humankind should accept a scientific understanding of reality in common.

'homegrown.'
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Hi. Wow...

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

homegrown wrote:The Boston Bombers believed things that are not true. They did so within a society that upholds contrary myths. It's important to note that the contemporary situation that has evolved from Enlightenment principles was not at all what was intended by the writers of the Constitution. American freedom of conscience was framed to favour Protestantism relative to the dictatorial religious attitudes of England and Rome; not rational knowledge relative to religion. Now standing directly contrary to the dictatorial quality of Islamic religion - I understand the frustration that led the older brother to post on his facebook page: 'I have no American friends. I don't understand them. They have no values.' What the mind in the grip of Islamic doctrine fails to understand is that contemporary relativism allows the individual to reach their own accommodation with reality, as they see it.

While I accept there's a certain utilitarian virtue in this secular 'pursuit of happiness' - as a philosopher possessed of a highly valid perspective on reality, I too find a cultural insistence on relativism incredibly frustrating. One can debate - and with precise logic and hard fact, force someone to concede each tangled thread of their often incoherent, idle-minded prejudices, and at last resort - without fail be met with the same bald assertion that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Neither I, nor the Islamic extremist accept this. The difference between us is that because I'm right, I don't have to kill people to insist upon my views. The relation between the validity of the knowledge bases of action and causality is like a divine judgment, built into Creation. In danger of that smug attitude I so despise in religious people - (for me it's more like the pity of a parent for a small child whose just run headlong into the patio doors) - the Boston Bombers are socially psychotic chickens come home to roost. ('...And that's why we don't run in the house!') That's why humankind should accept a scientific understanding of reality in common.

'homegrown.'
That "...everyone is entitled to their opinion." is that, which has allowed you to see things as you have. It's foolish and limiting to see it any other way. Don't get me wrong, I see that science is the language that everyone should be speaking, but that boils down to a proper scientifically structured educational system, and more importantly, a scientifically structured system that replaces politics.
homegrown
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Re: Hi. Wow...

Post by homegrown »

Spheres of Balance,

The right to an opinion must be balanced with a responsibility to a valid basis of analysis - for if the premises of an argument are invalid, then the conclusion must also be invalid. For instance, everyone should acknowledge that no-one knows whether or not God exists. While to hope so is perfectly sane, faith is an irrational approach to knowledge, but based on this false premise, religious identity has an inclusive/exclusive dynamic that by the moral justification of the included, demonizes those excluded. It's right there on his facebook page: 'I have no American friends. I don't understand them. They have no values.' In the minds of the Boston Bombers, the victims had no moral worth. That's an invalid conclusion. No-one has a right to that opinion.

Accepting that valid knowledge is established by scientific method - and that middle ground physics, chemistry and biology constitute a highly coherent understanding of reality can't tell you what to have for breakfast. I had salmon and scrambled eggs. You may have had crosissants and coffee. That's a matter of opinion - and in matters of opinion everyone is entitled to their own. I could argue that my breakfast is high in protein and low in saturated fat relative to yours which is all fat and sugar. It would be a scientifically valid argument, but you could still argue that you don't care about nutrition; that you like croissants and coffee, while the very thought of fish and eggs together makes you wretch. I'd have to accept that, but I shouldn't have to entertain the argument that fish and eggs together are sinful; an offence against God. You are not entitled to that opinion.

It's not a matter of opinion that the Earth is a single planetary environment, or that humankind is a single species. The religious, political and economic ideological architecture of societies are held to be true in denial of those two simple facts. It may or may not be that those two Chechen Muslims embarked on a murderous rampage in order to assert a religious identity undermined by the secular relativism of American society. Such considerations are generally the context of a more specific motive - but it's unlikely, even given the same motive, they'd have bombed a crowd constituted solely of Chechen Muslims. I mean, Israelis may evict other Isrealis, but they don't drive a bulldozer through the house with the people still inside.

Two news channels and a documentary by Dan Snow now inform my opinion on the conflict in Syria. BBC News and Russia Today present diametrically opposed views - while historian Dan Snow explained the long history of sectarian violence, and colonial interference in the region. What's happening in Syria follows directly from sectarian identity - relative to the identities of others in the struggle for power. A long history of sectarian massacres dictated the heavy handed response of the ruling Alawite sect to Shia and Sunni's employing the guise of an Arab Spring style popular uprising to make a grab for power. If memory serves, it was in the 1920's that 30,000 Alawites were slaughtered by the Shia's and Sunnis, so Assad could not but employ the machinery of state to resist an ostensibly pro-democratic revolt.

BBC news utterly disregard the religio-ethnic sectarian underpinnings of the conflict. By altering the premises, consequently, Assad's motive is not the survival of his religio-ethnic group, but merely to cling to power. This serves as propaganda for the UK government who pretend to the opinion that supporting 'the rebels' is the right thing to do - while their real opinion revolves around a Christian country and major arms manufacturers seeing political and economic advantage in destablizing a Muslim country - and with luck the wider region for a generation to come. Wanting to arm terrorists to foment civil war against the government of a sovereign state is not a valid opinion - so BBC news alters the premises in the public mind, such that government can sell arms for future oil contracts as if they were champions of the oppressed.

Accepting a scientific understanding of reality in common; that the Earth is a single planetary environment and humankind is a single species implies that religio-ethnic identities are socially constructed - as opposed to constituting fundamental differences between people. But I don't imagine that doing so would immediately resolve the conflict in Syria, or Israel/Palestine, or in Burma, or elsewhere... Had we embraced science as it emerged back in the 17th century, and integrated it into politics on an ongoing basis since - such conflicts wouldn't occur now, but we are such a long way down the wrong road we are threatened with extinction. We need to accept a scientific understanding of reality in order for our species to survive. Accepting a scientific understanding of reality in common as a political rationale to solve the energy crisis and climate change would establish science as a rightful basis of analysis relative to religious, political and economic ideology, and dissolve religio-ethnic identities as a species identity emerged organically over time.

Speaking of time - sorry it takes so long to reply, and for the lack of debate. I'd like to be able to engage more but internet access is a real problem for me. I have to take my computer out of the house - get your reply, and because my batteries suck, then come back home to write my reply, then go out again to post it. And why? Because I'm poor and technology is applied (or withheld) for profit - not in accord with the inherent merits of the technology. After solving the energy crisis and climate change, and desalinating sea-water to irrigate the deserts to grow enough food to feed the world while reducing the impact of human need on natural habitat, I'll wire the world so everyone can have a thousand TV channels, phone and faster than light broadband as standard. Doing it is not that difficult - it's just the getting started!

hg.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Hi. Wow...

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

homegrown wrote:Spheres of Balance,

The right to an opinion must be balanced with a responsibility to a valid basis of analysis - for if the premises of an argument are invalid, then the conclusion must also be invalid. For instance, everyone should acknowledge that no-one knows whether or not God exists. While to hope so is perfectly sane, faith is an irrational approach to knowledge, but based on this false premise, religious identity has an inclusive/exclusive dynamic that by the moral justification of the included, demonizes those excluded. It's right there on his facebook page: 'I have no American friends. I don't understand them. They have no values.' In the minds of the Boston Bombers, the victims had no moral worth. That's an invalid conclusion. No-one has a right to that opinion.

Accepting that valid knowledge is established by scientific method - and that middle ground physics, chemistry and biology constitute a highly coherent understanding of reality can't tell you what to have for breakfast. I had salmon and scrambled eggs. You may have had crosissants and coffee. That's a matter of opinion - and in matters of opinion everyone is entitled to their own. I could argue that my breakfast is high in protein and low in saturated fat relative to yours which is all fat and sugar. It would be a scientifically valid argument, but you could still argue that you don't care about nutrition; that you like croissants and coffee, while the very thought of fish and eggs together makes you wretch. I'd have to accept that, but I shouldn't have to entertain the argument that fish and eggs together are sinful; an offence against God. You are not entitled to that opinion.

It's not a matter of opinion that the Earth is a single planetary environment, or that humankind is a single species. The religious, political and economic ideological architecture of societies are held to be true in denial of those two simple facts. It may or may not be that those two Chechen Muslims embarked on a murderous rampage in order to assert a religious identity undermined by the secular relativism of American society. Such considerations are generally the context of a more specific motive - but it's unlikely, even given the same motive, they'd have bombed a crowd constituted solely of Chechen Muslims. I mean, Israelis may evict other Isrealis, but they don't drive a bulldozer through the house with the people still inside.

Two news channels and a documentary by Dan Snow now inform my opinion on the conflict in Syria. BBC News and Russia Today present diametrically opposed views - while historian Dan Snow explained the long history of sectarian violence, and colonial interference in the region. What's happening in Syria follows directly from sectarian identity - relative to the identities of others in the struggle for power. A long history of sectarian massacres dictated the heavy handed response of the ruling Alawite sect to Shia and Sunni's employing the guise of an Arab Spring style popular uprising to make a grab for power. If memory serves, it was in the 1920's that 30,000 Alawites were slaughtered by the Shia's and Sunnis, so Assad could not but employ the machinery of state to resist an ostensibly pro-democratic revolt.

BBC news utterly disregard the religio-ethnic sectarian underpinnings of the conflict. By altering the premises, consequently, Assad's motive is not the survival of his religio-ethnic group, but merely to cling to power. This serves as propaganda for the UK government who pretend to the opinion that supporting 'the rebels' is the right thing to do - while their real opinion revolves around a Christian country and major arms manufacturers seeing political and economic advantage in destablizing a Muslim country - and with luck the wider region for a generation to come. Wanting to arm terrorists to foment civil war against the government of a sovereign state is not a valid opinion - so BBC news alters the premises in the public mind, such that government can sell arms for future oil contracts as if they were champions of the oppressed.

Accepting a scientific understanding of reality in common; that the Earth is a single planetary environment and humankind is a single species implies that religio-ethnic identities are socially constructed - as opposed to constituting fundamental differences between people. But I don't imagine that doing so would immediately resolve the conflict in Syria, or Israel/Palestine, or in Burma, or elsewhere... Had we embraced science as it emerged back in the 17th century, and integrated it into politics on an ongoing basis since - such conflicts wouldn't occur now, but we are such a long way down the wrong road we are threatened with extinction. We need to accept a scientific understanding of reality in order for our species to survive. Accepting a scientific understanding of reality in common as a political rationale to solve the energy crisis and climate change would establish science as a rightful basis of analysis relative to religious, political and economic ideology, and dissolve religio-ethnic identities as a species identity emerged organically over time.

Speaking of time - sorry it takes so long to reply, and for the lack of debate. I'd like to be able to engage more but internet access is a real problem for me. I have to take my computer out of the house - get your reply, and because my batteries suck, then come back home to write my reply, then go out again to post it. And why? Because I'm poor and technology is applied (or withheld) for profit - not in accord with the inherent merits of the technology. After solving the energy crisis and climate change, and desalinating sea-water to irrigate the deserts to grow enough food to feed the world while reducing the impact of human need on natural habitat, I'll wire the world so everyone can have a thousand TV channels, phone and faster than light broadband as standard. Doing it is not that difficult - it's just the getting started!

hg.
I agree with all that you have said above, and I identify with your plight, as I too am of meager means, and I too would join you in the job of helping others on the road to equality, especially as to needs, i.e., water, food and shelter. But as to opinion you are incorrect.

Opinions drive change, and the only responsibility one has, is to ensure that they always question everything, to formulate these opinions. It would seem that you have confused the right of an opinion, with the right to act upon that opinion. I never said one has a right to act, especially when it comes to another's life, as the only man that could possibly have that right, would be that man that knows of the entire universe, and all it's secrets, and could prove, not only that he knows, but that another could actually harm the balance of the universe, if not stopped, but even then, I see killing as an extreme measure, to right any wrong, as surely the wrong doer that would upset the balance of the universe, would not really know what it was, that he was doing, such that he could never actually be held accountable.

Action then, where it might adversely affect another, must comply with my Fundamental Social Axiom (The Golden Rule{revised}): "Treat others as you would have others treat you, to the extent, that all parties, knowingly agree, at the time," as no mere mortal man, knows of the entirety of the universe, and can prove it.
homegrown
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Re: Hi. Wow...

Post by homegrown »

Spheres Of Balance:

You're just starting out on your philosophical journey - and it's good that you're thinking, but to imagine you can revise the Golden Rule is arrogant. To then fuck it up and not recognize it is stupid. Do you wish to appear arrogant and stupid? The essence of the Golden Rule is that it's complete. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is an axiom the individual wholly owns and carries with them - that, acting on the basis of this axiom, normalizes their interactions with others. The golden rule is problematic in that assumes I want what's good for myself, but if I want to die - then it must be okay for me to kill. If I'm a masochist - then it must be okay for me to hurt people. If I don't care for my own property.... If I'd let her grab my arse...etc. You recognize this problem, but your revision doesn't solve it. You would need to be psychic to knowingly agree to eachothers interactions - and thereby consent to them, before they occurred. At the very least you require further information; and a great deal of it - about what someone will or won't consent to before knowing how to proceed. How does one get that information without breaking the golden rule of mutual consent to action?

Note that accepting a scientific understanding of reality in common has a normalizing effect on behaviours by correcting for psychotic bases of analysis. Like the Golden Rule, it doesn't advocate or proscribe specific behaviours. It is owned by the individual - while also shared in common. It works as a principle because; while some would have you believe the source of morality is the holy book, the constitution, the UNHCR, the distribution of resources achieved by market forces, etc, in fact these are merely expressions of the moral sensibility human beings are imbued with by evolution within a social context. Human beings are moral animals, who invented religious, political and economic ideas to normalize interactions - blinding them to the obvious truth that; all that's necessary to moral action and interaction is that the calculus of moral reason is informed by valid knowledge of reality.

Can you show me where I mention equality? And who are these 'others' you speak of? Equality is a moral value. Mine is not a moral argument. While it has vast moral implications, the relation between the validity of the knowledge bases of action and causality is a functional relationship. Knowledge - action - causality - outcome. Invalid knowledge - invalid outcome. Valid knowledge - valid outcome. Accepting a scientific understanding of reality in common would serve as a political rationale that would enable us to apply technology on merit, to thereby increase wealth without polluting/denuding resources. It would increase human welfare in balance with environmental sustainability - but we have to get there from here. Look at the world. Russia and China are now capitalist. Equality has failed because while morally, equality is a nice idea, it's hugely problematic in practice. What kind of equality are you talking about anyway? Equality of opportunity? Equality of outcome? So who makes the decisions? How do you organize production?

What you say on opinion is also only half-thought through. You say I'm incorrect - but how could I be if everyone is entitled to their opinion? You say I'm confused - but what you seem to be saying is that while you have a right to an opinion, you have no right to act on it - unless omniscient. So, no-one ever acts. They just sit around keeping their ill-informed opinions to themselves until they die of starvation. Silly rabbit.

If you want to read what I write - and ask questions, I'll try and explain - but you have to assume that if something doesn't seem right to you it's because I'm right for reasons you don't understand. Otherwise, I'll hold you to your Fundamental Social Axiom: (revised!) - and knowingly not agree to you speaking to me.

hg.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Hi. Wow...

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

.





It feels good to have a newbie eat their opening words:

Hi. Wow. Do you all suck at philosophy!? Every thread seems to descend into an egoistic shouting match. I admit I may have missed an original thought on a significant issue, but I doubt it! HG!





...ewe. Wait a minute...lemme think about that.









...um, welcome to the forum?





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Image





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homegrown
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Re: Hi. Wow...

Post by homegrown »

Welcome back Bill. What I told SOB was friendly, well intentioned advice. It's sad (for him) he's taken offense. Stand him in good stead if he'd take it on board.

SOB - you say: 'my axiom requires communication, what are you afraid of, face to face communication, used to set common ground'

Communication is action. Thus, you've broken your own standard on how to act. Communication intended to set terms cannot be mutually consented to beforehand. You're wrong. Nice try - but wrong! Get over it.

The point I've been working towards is that religious, political and economic ideologies, by describing inclusive/exclusive identities, provide a rationale for action - that while from the perspectives thus forged, justify - even necessitate such action, no-one is in the right. A scientific understanding of reality traduces all equally - for in fact, humankind is a single species occupying a single planetary environment. If humankind wants to survive, it's necessary to solve the energy crisis and climate change before civilization fails, and while I don't imagine everyone will abandon their identities and beliefs, a third perspective everyone can share will have a normalizing effect on action and interaction. Accepting a scientific understanding of reality in common, as a basis to address the energy crisis and climate change, by official recognition of the fact - will also serve to counter the absolutism of religious, political and economic psychoses we see play out on the streets of Boston, in Syria, Israel/Palestine, Burma and elsewhere...

hg.
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