Mans Ultimate Purpose

[Hjarloprillar]

Whatever the individual man (or woman) says it is.

Whether the man (or woman) succeeds in achieving that purpose is irrelevant to self-determining the purpose.

No other interpretation makes any sense.

There's nothing intrinsic to the universe that can be considered 'purposeful', therefore no individual purpose can be gleaned by observing the universe.

Purpose, then, is wholly subjective, wholly in the head of the one who chooses to do 'this' action or actions for 'this' reason (a reason that may be so singular to the one so as to be incomprehensible to everyone else).

purpose.

And the 18k is I work for it.. you fail to imagine i will not.
I like to work. it is soothing. You suggest i will sitback and do nothing.. FALSE.

prill

[Tesla]

Whatever the individual man (or woman) says it is.

Whether the man (or woman) succeeds in achieving that purpose is irrelevant to self-determining the purpose.

No other interpretation makes any sense.

There's nothing intrinsic to the universe that can be considered 'purposeful', therefore no individual purpose can be gleaned by observing the universe.

Purpose, then, is wholly subjective, wholly in the head of the one who chooses to do 'this' action or actions for 'this' reason (a reason that may be so singular to the one so as to be incomprehensible to everyone else).

yes, but it is also indoctrinated. Like Christianity defines purpose, teaches it, and a majority will agree. of course, in this day, many are getting educated, researching, and then disagreeing. but if the indoctrinated purpose can be examined even after education, and found true, the indoctrination will not be an evil, it will be considered true. Truth is a universal agreement. the greater the evidence, the greater the agreements.

[henry quirk]

"yes you are guaranteed the money, but there is a catch. a stipulation of education if no work can be found, to gain the benefits."

I take it you mean to get the 18 thousand, one must work or go to school, yes?

If working, then the 18 thousand comes from the employer, yes?

If in school, who foots the bill for school? If the 18 thousand is used for tuition and whatnot, then what does Jack live on while in school? Jack, sittin' on his keister could make due with 18 thousand; Jack enrolled in school/university is gonna see most of the 18 thousand go into school coffers.

[Hjarloprillar]

so i reject the 18k and go for the 1 mill..
forgetting all i have lea'nt.. that money is nothing.
what a poor idiot human.

the buhdda chuckles

[henry quirk]

Actually, I was talkin' about *'Jack', not you.

You like to work...so do I...'Jack' does not.

*shrug*

It's not all about YOU, Prill.









*'Jack' being the placeholder for a whole whack of folks who don't work, who don't wanna work, and who would love to sit 'on ass' and collect money for not doin' squat.

[henry quirk]

glean = to gather information or material bit by bit

[Hjarloprillar]

glean = to gather information or material bit by bit

who is jack?


life is not so easy yah. full of dichotomies and misgivings.
Not in the system of the plutocrat
where do we put our faith.?


prill

[henry quirk]

So what?

At any given time, in any given place, most folks will 'go along'.

Many are too stupid to do otherwise.

Many are too weak to do otherwise.

If, as I think, purpose is subjective, individual, then why should the one give a rat's ass about the domesticated many?

You, as you say, have a desire to have the world you want to raise your children in. This leads you to do all manner of things to see such a world 'be'. Your purpose, then, can be said to 'change the world'. If so, what the majority thinks and does is of interest to you.

Another, with an entirely different agenda may have no legitimate interest in the actions and thoughts of the majority, viewing them only as obstacle to navigated.

[Bill Wiltrack]

.












................................................................











.

[Tesla]

"yes you are guaranteed the money, but there is a catch. a stipulation of education if no work can be found, to gain the benefits."

I take it you mean to get the 18 thousand, one must work or go to school, yes?

If working, then the 18 thousand comes from the employer, yes?

If in school, who foots the bill for school? If the 18 thousand is used for tuition and whatnot, then what does Jack live on while in school? Jack, sittin' on his keister could make due with 18 thousand; Jack enrolled in school/university is gonna see most of the 18 thousand go into school coffers.

nope. I mean that we do not allow people to just die of poverty because work is not available for whatever reason. and the state assisted living income should have a stipulation designed to bring individuals into the work arena. something plausible if the wealth is spread around a bit. Education or military service has been some options, but education costs money, while military service pays, but requires to give up many freedoms of choice.

The bottom cap is basically a minimum wage, however, minimum wage doesn't work. the proposal to raise minimum wages are profitable only to the entity receiving the extra tax dollars, the minimum wage raises are compensated by raising prices, and so far, all raises have not helped those who received the raise, but rather hurt them, as their money doesn't go as far.

Social programs are abused, women have multiple children with multiple men to receive child support and state benefits, and even assisted living or government housing. it does not promote education, and the social engineering of such areas can keep entire populations of people with no way to raise any higher, and no education to show them a path.

Do you have a better suggestion, or do you think that people in a poor economy should just be left to die?

[Tesla]

So what?

At any given time, in any given place, most folks will 'go along'.

Many are too stupid to do otherwise.

Many are too weak to do otherwise.

If, as I think, purpose is subjective, individual, then why should the one give a rat's ass about the domesticated many?

You, as you say, have a desire to have the world you want to raise your children in. This leads you to do all manner of things to see such a world 'be'. Your purpose, then, can be said to 'change the world'. If so, what the majority thinks and does is of interest to you.

Another, with an entirely different agenda may have no legitimate interest in the actions and thoughts of the majority, viewing them only as obstacle to navigated.

Ok. So let the species destroy the planet to preserve intellectual suicide? That’s what cynicism is. If you know anything about the chemistry of the atmosphere, then you know we are in great danger of our species becoming little patch's clinging to sparse life on a vastly different and uninhabitable world—in possibly less than 300 years. To avoid that will take global cooperation. Global cooperation takes world agreement. Now, ultimate purpose of mankind is not discovered in these things, but these things may allow the species to evolve long enough to discover the possibility if there is a greater ultimate purpose for a species other than self-interest, or species interest. Maybe like bacteria that don’t have a clue that without their work we humans would die, but they perform their work, and we live, maybe mankind has such a purpose. But what I'm discussing here is something a little off topic in a sense, because the topic is easily concluded as you say: some subjective ideology for whatever reason.

Your right about others, we have different agendas. We do so because we have a different idea of what is 'the most important thing'. But what is most important is subject to change with more information. Getting those millions of dollars can quickly change to getting a meal. Getting the right girl can turn into getting rid of the wrong one. Living for 'Jesus' can turn into destroying the church because 'Jesus' let you down. It goes on and on.

So your point being made, and me responding to clarify mine and why, I guess it would be pertinent for you to explain what is most important to you in life? Is it money? The girl? your God? Do you have children? Are you so evolved that your evolutions are done, your growth finished, your wisdom secured? Or can you deal more square in this discussion?

[henry quirk]

"Do you have a better suggestion(?)"

A few.

1-If the 'poor' are of such interest to you, then devote yourself to 'them' (instead of pissin' time away on a forum).

2-Instead of suggesting caps on income or wealth, work to cut the ties between 'the rich' and 'government'. The best way to do this is to see governors become what each should be: 'proxies' (public servants) who remain neutral (especially in economies).

3-Folks should properly rise (and fall!) of their own accord: leave them be to do just that.

#


"do you think that people in a poor economy should just be left to die?"

That depends entirely on 'why' this one or that one is failing.

If Joe is in the Pit by way of his own actions (or non-actions), I see no good reason to help him up out of that Pit.

If Jack is in the Pit through no fault of his own, I can see a benefit in lending him a hand up (but not an annual stipend).

##

"So let the species destroy the planet to preserve intellectual suicide?"

pffftt!

An appeal to emotion and junk science is no appeal at all.

#

"I guess it would be pertinent for you to explain what is most important to you in life?"

1-My six year old nephew

2-Me

In the face of these two (especially the first) every-thing and -one is next to nuthin' to me.

That's not to say there aren't a great many fine folks and things out there, but as those fine folks and things stand in comparison, well, there simply isn't any comparison.

All these picayune things -- (excessive) money, (romantic) love, (any) god, ('your') children are someone else's burden.

#

"Are you so evolved that your evolutions..."

HA!

There's a good reason I use the avatar I do...can you suss out that reason?

[Tesla]

"Do you have a better suggestion(?)"

A few.

1-If the 'poor' are of such interest to you, then devote yourself to 'them' (instead of pissin' time away on a forum).

2-Instead of suggesting caps on income or wealth, work to cut the ties between 'the rich' and 'government'. The best way to do this is to see governors become what each should be: 'proxies' (public servants) who remain neutral (especially in economies).

My interest lies in a society I want my children to live in. This forum is the philosophy now forum, and if I thought spending time here is a waste of time, I would not do it. The poor are not poor because they are not hard working. 60% of the poor are probably underpaid, albeit, hard workers.

Cutting ties between the rich and the government is impossible when wealth dictates the leaders. The rich are the directors of policy, and therefore, they are the government, and the governments are so much their tools. The governments subsidize the need for income by further exploiting the poor, and cannot take easily from the rich, but the poor can be thrown in jail to embrace a prison economy fed by government money. A woman was given more time than murderers for selling a thirty dollar bag of marijuana under one such system. You say what government should be, but do not say how to get there. My offered solution is to cap income levels so that government policies and leaders are chosen by a larger population than the few rich. (Few in comparison to the whole population)


http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... e-not-rich

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/201 ... ustom1.gif

An appeal to emotion and junk science is no appeal at all.

The global science community agrees on global warming trends and dangers.
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

"I guess it would be pertinent for you to explain what is most important to you in life?"

1-My six year old nephew

2-Me

In the face of these two (especially the first) every-thing and -one is next to nuthin' to me.

That's not to say there aren't a great many fine folks and things out there, but as those fine folks and things stand in comparison, well, there simply isn't any comparison.

All these picayune things -- (excessive) money, (romantic) love, (any) god, ('your') children are someone else's burden.

Your nephew's decedents may not have much of a planet to live on if most people adopt your views, especially since the chances of reversing or slowing the issues of climate change are time dependent, as nature feedback systems once started, will not stop. Maybe even your nephew's lifetime could see horrible war as populations rise up against government corruptions that the government will not address and the people who can make a difference reffuse to even acknowledge there is a problem.

Maybe I'm wasting my time here talking to you. But maybe there are others in these forums that believe that through discussion, solutions can be found.

[Hjarloprillar]

Actually, I was talkin' about *'Jack', not you.

You like to work...so do I...'Jack' does not.

*shrug*

It's not all about YOU, Prill.


What?

Of course it is
A placeholder for very interesting conversation.. back latter

prill









*'Jack' being the placeholder for a whole whack of folks who don't work, who don't wanna work, and who would love to sit 'on ass' and collect money for not doin' squat.

[Tesla]

Actually, I was talkin' about *'Jack', not you.

You like to work...so do I...'Jack' does not.

*shrug*

It's not all about YOU, Prill.


What?

Of course it is
A placeholder for very interesting conversation.. back latter

prill









*'Jack' being the placeholder for a whole whack of folks who don't work, who don't wanna work, and who would love to sit 'on ass' and collect money for not doin' squat.

What I find interesting about this very common government argument to give reason as to why to do nothing for 'Jack', is that they never really examine why 'jack' is not working. Although there are some 'jacks' in life, In my area they usually represent a very small minority.