~ What if it were possible to die? ~

[Toadny]

Eastern Philosophy rips on Western and that people gravitate toward its ancient grove with respect and awe is testament to its power and continuing relevance.

I don't know what "rips on" means, but the fact that people gravitate towards Eastern religious baloney is a testament to their gullibility.

[Arising_uk]

...
Your backhand at Eastern mysticism via new age in the post to Bill says it all in regard a typical myopic philosophy whose prevalence is quickly waning. Its a philosophy that aligns itself to rationality as would a Bishop tag behind a Pope. Eastern Philosophy rips on Western and that people gravitate toward its ancient grove with respect and awe is testament to its power and continuing relevance. ...

Which eastern religion are you following?

For myself, if I was going to follow such a metaphysic I prefer it to be of my culture rather than imported and cherry-picked from another as on the whole I think the issue of translation and lack of a supporting cultural framework makes a mockery of its origin. As such Fredkin, Zuse, et al, would be my waffle of choice.

What your philosophy doesn't account for is that nothing is nothing and that nothing can become nothing. Being doesn't cease and become not-being, it may cease a way or form of being, or cease to be differentiated being, but being doesn't cease. I think that's Bill's point.

And mine is that your 'being' will not be the being of this being if we can even infer such an event in the first place.

The mysteries of life will always trump its rationales sir.

What mystery? You're born into an external world, you live in it, you die in it and it goes on. The rest is wishful conjecture.

[Bill Wiltrack]

.




Spoken like a true philosopher?





.

[Arising_uk]

Spoken like a true philosopher?.

Whats one of those?

[Bernard]

Eastern Philosophy rips on Western and that people gravitate toward its ancient grove with respect and awe is testament to its power and continuing relevance.

I don't know what "rips on" means, but the fact that people gravitate towards Eastern religious baloney is a testament to their gullibility.

There is as much baloney in the East as in the West. I don't understand why you discount in one fell swoop philosophies from the East.

[Bernard]

...
Your backhand at Eastern mysticism via new age in the post to Bill says it all in regard a typical myopic philosophy whose prevalence is quickly waning. Its a philosophy that aligns itself to rationality as would a Bishop tag behind a Pope. Eastern Philosophy rips on Western and that people gravitate toward its ancient grove with respect and awe is testament to its power and continuing relevance. ...

Which eastern religion are you following?

For myself, if I was going to follow such a metaphysic I prefer it to be of my culture rather than imported and cherry-picked from another as on the whole I think the issue of translation and lack of a supporting cultural framework makes a mockery of its origin. As such Fredkin, Zuse, et al, would be my waffle of choice.

I'm not following any Eastern relkigion. Please don't try and type caste me. One could start with Gibran - 'The Prophet' being the most widely read book ever, except perhaps for Shakespeare. but he may have eclipsed Shakespeare by now. Older Indian philosophy is great and is not divorced from mysticism as Western philosophy is... if you see that as a failure what more can be said? My culture is human, should I deny the majority of my culture because I was born in a particular geographic location? That sort of view promotes inbreeding and leads to extinction.

What your philosophy doesn't account for is that nothing is nothing and that nothing can become nothing. Being doesn't cease and become not-being, it may cease a way or form of being, or cease to be differentiated being, but being doesn't cease. I think that's Bill's point.

And mine is that your 'being' will not be the being of this being if we can even infer such an event in the first place.

The mysteries of life will always trump its rationales sir.

What mystery? You're born into an external world, you live in it, you die in it and it goes on. The rest is wishful conjecture.

Its really not that hard to imagine that differentiated being can become undifferentiated... or maybe it is that hard for you.
Life is the mystery if you don't want to be pluralistic about it. I was born into an external world... from where exactly? Come on, think about it a bit at least.

[Toadny]

There is as much baloney in the East as in the West. I don't understand why you discount in one fell swoop philosophies from the East.

It's not philosophy, it's religion/fantasy.

[Arising_uk]

...
Its really not that hard to imagine that differentiated being can become undifferentiated... or maybe it is that hard for you. ...

Whats hard is the thought that'd it still be the being.

Life is the mystery if you don't want to be pluralistic about it. I was born into an external world... from where exactly? Come on, think about it a bit at least.

I did from my early teens to my twenties. Then I thought its a ridiculous question to waste time on as it stops and starts with my parents having sex. If you mean 'life' in general then I tend towards the comets and asteroids as the source for the chemicals involved and dna evolution for the forms. If I want to be a metaphysical loon then I like to be up-to-culture so Fredkin, Zuse, et al. We're a sim, in a sim, in a sim, running on a planck bit 3d cellular automata I tell you! With maybe an emulation thrown in there somewhere, or maybe just all emulations, how could we tell?

[Bernard]

I'll check out sim and emulation.

I wouldn't call undifferentiated being 'the being'
Nor do I suggest that you or I don't end.
It's just that from any observation of anything, not matter what, when it ceases its parts don't end but transform and go into the making of something else. Bill seems to contemplate that this is true of consciousness as it is for anything else. Why should it be the only exception?

[SpheresOfBalance]

.






..............................................................................................What if it were possible to die?


..............................................What if it were possible for us to cease to exist?



.

Obviously you speak of humanity, but I see that not only is it possible, but rather probable.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Fries, not chips.

So find us a gif or jpg of real British Fish and Chips. I love Fish & Chips! But while I'm sure it's not British, I prefer Tarter Sauce and Ketchup with my Fish & Chips.

[Arising_uk]

... Bill seems to contemplate that this is true of consciousness as it is for anything else. Why should it be the only exception?

Because it assume that consciousness is a thing rather than a process associated with things. So I think the things do go back into constituent parts a la the lion king but am very dubious that consciousness can just float about willy-nilly.

[Bernard]

Interesting point but I don't see why a process isn't a thing as well. You can fine the definition of thing to readily to suit an argument.

Does consciousness float about willy nilly? Or is consciousness in your sentence the 'about' in which things (not all things) float willy nilly - whether it be differentiated or undifferentiated consciousness, eg; your thoughts float in your individual consciousness. Examined, my premise assumes that there is no environment which is not a conscious entity, or at least a portion of a conscious entity, and that if a consciousness becomes undifferentiated it does so only within a consciousness that is differentiated, but large enough to be able to support within it the full dissolution of a smaller differentiated consciousness. I don't subscribe to an ultimate consciousness btw.

thing (thng)
n.
1. An entity, an idea, or a quality perceived, known, or thought to have its own existence.
2.
a. The real or concrete substance of an entity.
b. An entity existing in space and time.
c. An inanimate object.
3. Something referred to by a word, a symbol, a sign, or an idea; a referent.
4. A creature: the poor little thing.
5. An individual object: There wasn't a thing in sight.
6.
a. Law That which can be possessed or owned. Often used in the plural: things personal; things real.
b. things Possessions; belongings: packed her things and left.
c. An article of clothing: Put on your things and let's go.
7. things The equipment needed for an activity or a special purpose: Where are my cleaning things?
8. An object or entity that is not or cannot be named specifically: What is this thing for?
9.
a. An act, deed, or work: promised to do great things.
b. The result of work or activity: is always building things.
10. A thought, a notion, or an utterance: What a rotten thing to say!
11. A piece of information: wouldn't tell me a thing about the project.
12. A means to an end: just the thing to increase sales.
13. An end or objective: In blackjack, the thing is to get nearest to 21 without going over.
14. A matter of concern: many things on my mind.
15. A turn of events; a circumstance: The accident was a terrible thing.
16.
a. things The general state of affairs; conditions: "Beneath the smooth surface of things, something was wrong" (Tom Wicker).
b. A particular state of affairs; a situation: Let's deal with this thing promptly.
17. Informal A persistent illogical feeling, as a desire or an aversion; an obsession: has a thing about seafood.
18. Informal The latest fad or fashion; the rage: Drag racing was the thing then.
19. Slang An activity uniquely suitable and satisfying to one: Let him do his own thing. See Synonyms at forte1.
Idioms:
first thing Informal
Right away; before anything else: Do your assignments first thing in the morning.
see/hear things
To have hallucinations.

[Bill Wiltrack]

.






.............................................................................






Consciousness is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within oneself. It has been defined as: subjectivity, awareness, sentience, the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the mind.Despite the difficulty in definition, many philosophers believe that there is a broadly shared underlying intuition about what consciousness is.As Max Velmans and Susan Schneider wrote in The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness: "Anything that we are aware of at a given moment forms part of our consciousness, making conscious experience at once the most familiar and most mysterious aspect of our lives."

~ Wiki ~




........................................................................................






.

[Arising_uk]

And that has what to do with the topic of dying or the idea that consciousness can survive ones death?