Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

How should society be organised, if at all?

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Pluto
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by Pluto »

Mybe you should read some Levi-Strauss, the structural theorist.
When you've done that then I suggest some Anthony Giddens' Structuration Theory.
Until you've done your homework you are basically blowing it out of your arse.
I don't need to read all that. I can simply observe how it (the structure, in this case, the BBC) reacts, chooses to frame a given story or event. It is not important who is doing it, but that it is being done. And the way that say the BBC go about framing the relationship between Wikileaks and the US will always come down on the side of the most powerful, in this case the US. It is not in the BBC's interest to take the side of Wikileaks and so it doesn't. My beef is that the BBC is situated in most minds as an objective observer of events and is a-political, which is false, and creates false conciousness.

We need to think about how structural elements within the BBC's piece,(and all electronic visual media) including sound, editing, the choice of presenter/reporter, with particular reference to his voice/accent/intonation/timing, etc. The people interviewed (mostly US personnel), how all this, the whole package, how it works upon the mind of the viewer. Once digested/seen/consumed, the piece starts to do its work within the viewer, much later. Like a virus. It is important to know this. As it forms opinions within the viewer (without the viewer knowing) and then comes out as an opinion of that particular viewer. A good example of this is the programme LOST with its torture scenes.

So then, using electronic visual media aligned with political ideology to obtain consensus/onboard thinking throughout a populace. Mass Entertainment as a form of political consensus building.
chaz wyman
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by chaz wyman »

Pluto wrote:
Mybe you should read some Levi-Strauss, the structural theorist.
When you've done that then I suggest some Anthony Giddens' Structuration Theory.
Until you've done your homework you are basically blowing it out of your arse.
I don't need to read all that.
Then remain in ignorance.
But do not expect anyone to listen to you when you use big words you do not understand nor know the references to.
Pluto
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by Pluto »

Big words? Oh mighty brain.
chaz wyman
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by chaz wyman »

Pluto wrote:Big words? Oh mighty brain.

True
Pluto
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by Pluto »

New York City, October 1986
Interviewer: Klaus Ottmann
Interviewee: Jeff Koons

Ottmann: How do you see advertisement?

Koons: It’s basically the medium that defines people’s perceptions of the world, of life itself, how to interact with others. The media defines reality. Just yesterday we met some friends. We were celebrating and I said to them: “Here’s to good friends!” It was like living in an ad. It was wonderful, a wonderful moment. We were right there living in the reality of our media.


http://www.jca-online.com/koons.html
Pluto
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by Pluto »

For the Italian Marxist Antonio Gramsci, hegemony was not something that was necessarily attained through force or economic power. Gramsci instead wrote about a form of power that was more subtle and covert in nature: he emphasized the large role of cultural institutions which through ideologically impregnated imagery unconsciously shape our value systems. We not only give our consent to this process, but most of the time actually enjoy such experiences and are even willing to invest our time and a lot of money into it. www.roarmag.org

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ark-thirty

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ustifiable
Pluto
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by Pluto »

Pluto
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by Pluto »

I don't think he's derailed the thread. He simply said that Gramsci echoes ideas, a perspective, that he himself can relate to. Maybe Bobevenson could post the cultural products ('a pathway of evil') which he himself sees as creating cultural value.

Here I have focused on film, in particular, the new, not yet made Wikileaks film by Spielberg. The film will paint the organisation and Assange in a derogatory fashion, so that people who see it, will internalise a viewpoint most favourable to the established order. It is a new kind of politics (perhaps it's always been so). Persuasion and consensus building through mass entertainment. Value creation through passive viewing. Looking at film in this way, the role of the actors becomes interesting. The two main actors (pictured) in the Wikileaks film, perform, amongst other things, a role of legitimation. They perform (perhaps unbeknown) a collaboratory role (collaborator, as existed in occupied France). Orchestrated signifiers of (conflicting) meaning, framed to create a desired effect.

yes.jpg


Here is Assange at 11:10 talking about the film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1r7-ralebI
Pluto
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by Pluto »

I've recently seen a number of uk tv shows where Western Celebrity types (also joe public types) go to so-called developing, third world countries. One show I witnessed lastnight was where a celebrity couple (man and a woman - possible sexual intrigue) drove around in a Ford 4x4. Bumby roads, crazy food, bad sleep, no infrastructure, etc. The main idea seems to be to stress to the Western viewer (at home) that it is such a hard life here. Or, you've got it good where you are. I claim that the show is politically motivated (while being presented as some kind of exotic hell travel show). What does this mean if it is so, etc. And why should you even care, etc. It's worse here than where you are = stay put. But what does it mean (it terms of zeitgeist) when you go to the effort of making a program in order to instill this idea, etc.
bobevenson
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by bobevenson »

Do you really think they produce TV shows for propaganda purposes? At least in the USA, they produce TV shows to make money, and if people don't watch them, they get cancelled.
Pluto
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by Pluto »

bobevenson wrote:Do you really think they produce TV shows for propaganda purposes? At least in the USA, they produce TV shows to make money, and if people don't watch them, they get cancelled.
Yes, profit is the goal, but then tv and film do so much more. I think today everything contemporary is propaganda by its very nature. The times we are in, encourage it. Show me a contemporary tv programme that isn't propaganda and I will tell you why it is.
Pluto
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by Pluto »

One of the guiding beliefs of our consuming age is that we are all free and independent individuals. That we can choose to do pretty much what we want, and if we can't then it's bad.

But at the same time, co-existing alongside this, there is a completely different, parallel universe where we all seem meekly to do what those in power tell us to do. Ever since the economic crisis in 2008, millions of people have accepted cuts in all sorts of things - from real wages and living standards to benefits and hospital care - without any real opposition.

The cuts may be right, or they may be stupid - but the astonishing thing is how no-one really challenges them.

I think that one of the reasons for this is because a lot of the power that shapes our lives today has become invisible - and so it is difficult to see how it really works and even more difficult to challenge it.

So much of the language that surrounds us - from things like economics, management theory and the algorithms built into computer systems - appears to be objective and neutral. But in fact it is loaded with powerful, and very debatable, political assumptions about how society should work, and what human beings are really like...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/p ... N-CONSUMED
bobevenson
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by bobevenson »

Pluto wrote:
bobevenson wrote:Do you really think they produce TV shows for propaganda purposes? At least in the USA, they produce TV shows to make money, and if people don't watch them, they get cancelled.
Yes, profit is the goal, but then tv and film do so much more. I think today everything contemporary is propaganda by its very nature. The times we are in, encourage it. Show me a contemporary tv programme that isn't propaganda and I will tell you why it is.
Well, then, all interactions between people are "propaganda," in that somebody is trying to influence somebody in some way. Essentially, your viewpoint is meaningless.
Pluto
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by Pluto »

bobevenson wrote:
Pluto wrote:
bobevenson wrote:Do you really think they produce TV shows for propaganda purposes? At least in the USA, they produce TV shows to make money, and if people don't watch them, they get cancelled.
Yes, profit is the goal, but then tv and film do so much more. I think today everything contemporary is propaganda by its very nature. The times we are in, encourage it. Show me a contemporary tv programme that isn't propaganda and I will tell you why it is.
Well, then, all interactions between people are "propaganda," in that somebody is trying to influence somebody in some way. Essentially, your viewpoint is meaningless.
No, this is going offtrack. interactions between people, face to face, by phone, email, etc, is not propaganda. The propaganda I speak of comes from the present owners of capitalist power directed at you and me. Entertainment today is political embodiment. Do you really think being surrounded in media 24/7 has no effect on your thinking?
bobevenson
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Re: Contemporary Propaganda (PR)

Post by bobevenson »

Pluto wrote:No, this is going offtrack. interactions between people, face to face, by phone, email, etc, is not propaganda. The propaganda I speak of comes from the present owners of capitalist power directed at you and me. Entertainment today is political embodiment. Do you really think being surrounded in media 24/7 has no effect on your thinking?
No, it's not going offtrack at all. You're anti-capitalistic, which is just fine, even though capitalism has brought people a far higher standard of living than any system you might favor. You are wrong to say that interactions between people are not propaganda. If the Ku Klux Klan communicates with the public, person to person, that is propaganda, my friend.
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