The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

[chaz wyman]

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Can I use your image please?

[Godfree]

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Can I use your image please?

By the look of that face I would say the answer would be no chaz,,!!

[chaz wyman]

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Can I use your image please?

By the look of that face I would say the answer would be no chaz,,!!

Okay then send me another picture of you smiling and we can put that on the Forum.

[Godfree]

Okay then send me another picture of you smiling and we can put that on the Forum.[/quote]

Or we could get back to the topic and promote the Atheist Movement,,!!

[chaz wyman]

Okay then send me another picture of you smiling and we can put that on the Forum.

Or we could get back to the topic and promote the Atheist Movement,,!![/quote]

You might have to call it something that it is and not something that is a negation of something else.
There is no atheism without theism.

[Godfree]

Okay then send me another picture of you smiling and we can put that on the Forum.

Or we could get back to the topic and promote the Atheist Movement,,!!

You might have to call it something that it is and not something that is a negation of something else.
There is no atheism without theism.[/quote]

Try this one , god is being used as an example of the ultimate fantasy ,
so when we say Atheist , we are saying Afantacist ???
could you see god as representing fantasy ,,all fantasy ,
because lets face it , I and I presume you would prefer
a belief system based on reality ,,???? wouldn't you ,,???

[chaz wyman]

Try this one , god is being used as an example of the ultimate fantasy ,
so when we say Atheist , we are saying Afantacist ???
could you see god as representing fantasy ,,all fantasy ,
because lets face it , I and I presume you would prefer
a belief system based on reality ,,???? wouldn't you ,,???

I believe god is a fantasy.
But for me the thing about being an atheist is that I avoid believing anything. I tend to stick to stuff that I can reasonably and evidentially talk about. That means 'god' is not part of my creed, either in terms positive or negative. I am post-god. I've moved on. I can't make a life out of negating a thing i do not believe to exist without making theists more important than they deserve.
But went the subject comes up, as you can see, I can be voluble in my scorn. But I do not make a religion out of it.
None of this means that I think fantasy is a bad thing. I love LOTR for example and am looking forward to seeing The Hobbit. I read those books when I was about 12 and again when about 22. They contain much in the way of truth; much nicer than the evil stories in the Bible.

[windy36]

If no God helps us with morality, how can we improve morality? Morality among many people I meet is lacking. I try to be moral, but others around me act immoral. If morality is all there is, and people believe they can improve themselves morally why are people not doing it? Why do we not have a perfect universe then if everyone knows what they should be doing? Can people be all that encouraged to be a moral slave to a immoral universe? If everyone has different opinions about morality because truth is subjective then there is going to be conflict which no one or a God (if he exists) can resolve since objective morality doesn't exist.

[Godfree]

If no God helps us with morality, how can we improve morality? Morality among many people I meet is lacking. I try to be moral, but others around me act immoral. If morality is all there is, and people believe they can improve themselves morally why are people not doing it? Why do we not have a perfect universe then if everyone knows what they should be doing? Can people be all that encouraged to be a moral slave to a immoral universe? If everyone has different opinions about morality because truth is subjective then there is going to be conflict which no one or a God (if he exists) can resolve since objective morality doesn't exist.

Well Windy , where to start ,??
firstly please explain how god helps us with morality , be specific , sky writing ,god appears on the 6 ocklock news ,,??
exactly how does god help us with morality ,,??
isn't all religious claims of gods morality ,,that individuals idea of what they imagine god thinks ,,???
and do you accept Muslim morality , Hindu , Voo Doo ,,why do you chose the version that you do ,,??
Also your assumption that a world without god is a moral free society is so childish ,
Atheists do the right thing , because it's the right thing , not because of what they imagine ,
a fictitious being called god might want ,,!!!
We do the right thing because it's the right thing to do ,
did the crusaders show morals , was burning witches at the stake a moral thing to do ,
So just to clarify for your very limited understanding ,
Man invented god , morals , evil , and any other human trait you want to mention ,
if your waiting for god to tell us what morals to have ,
you are a puppet in the hands of the religious spin doctors ,,!!!

[chaz wyman]

If no God helps us with morality, how can we improve morality?

How? In exactly the same way that we have done since the dawn of time, before god was even invented.

Morality among many people I meet is lacking.

In your opinion; by your personal standards, not by their own.

I try to be moral, but others around me act immoral.

I think you are acting immorally because you assume that your attempts at morality are better than everyone else's. And that is exactly the problem with religion and why people are abandoning it in droves.
It is not for you to say with whom I sleep. What I eat, what I wear, not how I talk to others.

If morality is all there is, and people believe they can improve themselves morally why are people not doing it?

Why don't you improve your own morality by accepting others for themselves, and allowing them to live their own lives free from your judgement?

Why do we not have a perfect universe then if everyone knows what they should be doing?

Because your ways have been tried. Priests have told us the right way to behave whilst buggering little children, exploiting girls in laundries; abusing those with mental health problems ad infinite.
Your ways have been tried and have failed.


Can people be all that encouraged to be a moral slave to a immoral universe? If everyone has different opinions about morality because truth is subjective then there is going to be conflict which no one or a God (if he exists) can resolve since objective morality doesn't exist.

The problem IS the belief in objective morality. There can never be a one size fits all.

[windy36]

If no God helps us with morality, how can we improve morality? Morality among many people I meet is lacking. I try to be moral, but others around me act immoral. If morality is all there is, and people believe they can improve themselves morally why are people not doing it? Why do we not have a perfect universe then if everyone knows what they should be doing? Can people be all that encouraged to be a moral slave to a immoral universe? If everyone has different opinions about morality because truth is subjective then there is going to be conflict which no one or a God (if he exists) can resolve since objective morality doesn't exist.

Well Windy , where to start ,??
firstly please explain how god helps us with morality , be specific , sky writing ,god appears on the 6 ocklock news ,,??
exactly how does god help us with morality ,,??
isn't all religious claims of gods morality ,,that individuals idea of what they imagine god thinks ,,???
and do you accept Muslim morality , Hindu , Voo Doo ,,why do you chose the version that you do ,,??
Also your assumption that a world without god is a moral free society is so childish ,
Atheists do the right thing , because it's the right thing , not because of what they imagine ,
a fictitious being called god might want ,,!!!
We do the right thing because it's the right thing to do ,
did the crusaders show morals , was burning witches at the stake a moral thing to do ,
So just to clarify for your very limited understanding ,
Man invented god , morals , evil , and any other human trait you want to mention ,
if your waiting for god to tell us what morals to have ,
you are a puppet in the hands of the religious spin doctors ,,!!!

I am not claiming there is any God that helps us with morality. I believe it is the individual that decides whether or not to be moral. The problem I am having with your argument is the evidence does not show that everyone is moral all the time. So if people know what morality is why are people always not moral? I have problems with the religious argument that says that God helps people be moral because if God is helping people be moral then why are so many people immoral? Also no evidence shows that God helps people to be moral. From my observation of society it seems like sometimes people are moral and sometimes people are immoral. This is probally based on individual will power and personal needs.

[chaz wyman]

I am not claiming there is any God that helps us with morality. I believe it is the individual that decides whether or not to be moral. The problem I am having with your argument is the evidence does not show that everyone is moral all the time. So if people know what morality is why are people always not moral? I have problems with the religious argument that says that God helps people be moral because if God is helping people be moral then why are so many people immoral? Also no evidence shows that God helps people to be moral. From my observation of society it seems like sometimes people are moral and sometimes people are immoral. This is proabably based on individual will power and personal needs.

I think your trouble is that you are starting with an assumption about the nature of god. Then you are confusing yourself about why god is not this or that, or that people are not how they should be.
Who is saying this; "the religious argument that says that God helps people be moral"?
Maybe if you started with how things are; how people behave and how the world seems to be - then use that to uncover what god is like; what is moral; if god is a meaningful idea; and how people are.
Most people learn from observation. It's called induction. If you start with rock hard ideas and try to deduce from that then you will only misunderstand reality.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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I really relate with your last three sentences. For me, deeply philosophical.


I appreciate you articulating this important philosophical concept.







.

[Godfree]

[
I am not claiming there is any God that helps us with morality. I believe it is the individual that decides whether or not to be moral. The problem I am having with your argument is the evidence does not show that everyone is moral all the time. So if people know what morality is why are people always not moral? I have problems with the religious argument that says that God helps people be moral because if God is helping people be moral then why are so many people immoral? Also no evidence shows that God helps people to be moral. From my observation of society it seems like sometimes people are moral and sometimes people are immoral. This is probally based on individual will power and personal needs.[/quote]

You keep using this term moral , as if it were a known quantity , as if there was only one set of morals and we all know them ,,?????,,,Please humour me and explain where do your set of morals come from ,
which assumption makes you think your concept of moral is the same as others ,
lets use a different term , right and wrong ,
Each country has it's own set of right and wrongs ,
In america it would seem moral to bare arms ,america has the death penalty , is that moral , right ? ,
or is that immoral , wrong .
Moral is a man made invention , just like god ,
we can chose any morals we want , just like our gods , we invent a god that sounds right to us ,
or them , there is no idea of god that sounds right to me ,
We all have our own sense of right and wrong , usually things like , fair , even ,just ,
so just to make my point , religion is in my opinion , morally bankrupt .dishonest ,pack of liars and cheats ,
who steal money off the poor and the vulnerable ,to build a bigger powerbase , to steal some more .!!!

[Godfree]

I really relate with your last three sentences. For me, deeply philosophical.


I appreciate you articulating this important philosophical concept.[/size]







.[/quote]
Well it's a shame you can't explain or articulate why you consider it philosophical ,
"most people learn from observation"
there is zero proof for the existence of god , god has never been observed ,!!
there will always be claims , it's called here-say ,
which adds up to nothing in a court of law ,
I have observed a world without god , I see NO evidence of a god ,
I observe a lot of headless chickens running around , lost in fantasy land ,
Observations , like morals and OPINIONS ,
is just another individuals choice , we can chose to conclude this that and the next thing ,
just like Hubble chose to see an expanding universe ,
when in reality there is no actual evidence to support that ,
the red shift , is a theory that has yet to be confirmed or "proven"
we see what we want to see , Admiral Nelson , saw what he wanted to see , by putting the telescope to his blind eye ,so even when the facts show something else , we still persist with what we want ,,!!!