The essence of THEOLOGY.

[brightlights]

Speaking as a theologian, I think the future of theology lies in its ability to dialogue with science; however, the discussion has to be between civil parties who are not pure fundamentalists. The disciplines overlap at places, like a Venn diagram, but must also be allowed their own domains as well. I find continental theologians to be much more broad-minded when it comes to the interface between the disciplines, and it is refreshing to know that your vicar isn't secretly thinking that all the biologists and chemists in the pews are going to hell for believing in evolution.

What is in it for science? It seems to me that you might like to think there is a future in Theology, and perhaps it is true, as it has been for at least 300 years that theologians have had to go cap-in-hand to appease science, history has proven that science has suffered for its association with theology and has no need or desire to continue with any sort of association with theologians. The fact is that many scientists have had to face arrest, imprisonment, persecution and censorship from theological ideology, but now the boot is on the other foot. Think your self lucky that science minded people are not arresting, imprisoning, persecuting and censoring you for your falsehoods, and scientific heresies.

So, I would suggest you keep to your own "domain" as you like to call it, but either you listen to science and adapt or die.

Without Christian theology there would be no science.

[tillingborn]

Without Christian theology there would be no science.

Do you have any understanding of history or geography? Science is not restricted to the last two thousand years or Christendom.

[brightlights]

Without Christian theology there would be no science.

Do you have any understanding of history or geography? Science is not restricted to the last two thousand years or Christendom.

I have some understanding of history and geography. Science as we know it is a western phenomenon, though since its inception it has been embraced by the east. The western world is essentially Greco-Roman and Christian in its foundation. The foundation of science is found in Christian theology -- namely in the idea that man, in some sense, stands apart from and over creation as its observer and steward. Man has the ability to study it and manipulate it to unlock its potential. This idea is uniquely Christian. If you love science, you have the church to thank for it.

[tillingborn]

The foundation of science is found in Christian theology -- namely in the idea that man, in some sense, stands apart from and over creation as its observer and steward.

It may be a bit old testament, but what sort of knowledge did god forbid Adam eating the apple of? I don't believe any scientist would argue that human beings 'stand apart' from nature, unless they happen to be christian in the sense you describe.

If you love science, you have the church to thank for it.

I think credit is due to Thales of Miletus who first tried to explain natural phenomena without recourse to supernatural beings.

[brightlights]

The foundation of science is found in Christian theology -- namely in the idea that man, in some sense, stands apart from and over creation as its observer and steward.

It may be a bit old testament, but what sort of knowledge did god forbid Adam eating the apple of? I don't believe any scientist would argue that human beings 'stand apart' from nature, unless they happen to be christian in the sense you describe.

Knowledge of good and evil.

I said stand apart "in some sense". Obviously man is a part of creation but without the notion that man is rational and is able to perceive objective reality there could be no science. This notion is supplied by Christian theology.

[brightlights]

I think credit is due to Thales of Miletus who first tried to explain natural phenomena without recourse to supernatural beings.

Maybe if Thales of Miletus supplied the west with their worldview.

[chaz wyman]

Theology is only theology if it engages with every arena of life. There is nothing it doesn't touch. If it is not practical, then it is not theology.

I think you are thinking of something else.
No theology ever engages with "everyday life", it always, and by definition concerns itself with fantasy.

Only if you don't believe in God. Even then you still have theology. The belief "there isn't God" is one of your most important beliefs and affects all of your life.

No, no, no - especially if you believe in God. If you don't believe in God, then Theology does not matter at all. Theology is a means by which people are removed from the everysay workings of reason and living an authentic life.
I do not have a belief of any kind; especially not "I believe there is no God". My life consists on knowing to the best of my ability. Things that are speculative do not attract any belief at all. Belief has no uses to me.

[chaz wyman]

Speaking as a theologian, I think the future of theology lies in its ability to dialogue with science; however, the discussion has to be between civil parties who are not pure fundamentalists. The disciplines overlap at places, like a Venn diagram, but must also be allowed their own domains as well. I find continental theologians to be much more broad-minded when it comes to the interface between the disciplines, and it is refreshing to know that your vicar isn't secretly thinking that all the biologists and chemists in the pews are going to hell for believing in evolution.

What is in it for science? It seems to me that you might like to think there is a future in Theology, and perhaps it is true, as it has been for at least 300 years that theologians have had to go cap-in-hand to appease science, history has proven that science has suffered for its association with theology and has no need or desire to continue with any sort of association with theologians. The fact is that many scientists have had to face arrest, imprisonment, persecution and censorship from theological ideology, but now the boot is on the other foot. Think your self lucky that science minded people are not arresting, imprisoning, persecuting and censoring you for your falsehoods, and scientific heresies.

So, I would suggest you keep to your own "domain" as you like to call it, but either you listen to science and adapt or die.

Without Christian theology there would be no science.

What a crock of shit! Tell that the Brian Cox, Einstein, Giordano Bruno, Galileo and Aristotle.
What a twat!
Is that the sort of bollocks they tell you in Theology classes?

[brightlights]

What a crock of shit! Tell that the Brian Cox, Einstein, Giordano Bruno, Galileo and Aristotle.
What a twat!
Is that the sort of bollocks they tell you in Theology classes?

I see I've threatened your sacred cow. Galileo himself argued against Aristotle for heliocentricity using the Bible.

Christian theology helped to overturn Aristotelian science (which is a good thing). Without it we would still believe in the five elements.

[brightlights]

No, no, no - especially if you believe in God. If you don't believe in God, then Theology does not matter at all. Theology is a means by which people are removed from the everysay workings of reason and living an authentic life.
I do not have a belief of any kind; especially not "I believe there is no God". My life consists on knowing to the best of my ability. Things that are speculative do not attract any belief at all. Belief has no uses to me.

Know thyself. The only thing you have is belief.

[tillingborn]

Galileo himself argued against Aristotle for heliocentricity using the Bible.

Can you support this claim with any evidence? Where in Galileo's surviving work is there a reference to the bible as a source of the theory of of heliocentricity? You seem unaware that Galileo was held under house arrest by the catholic church for supporting heliocentricity.

Christian theology helped to overturn Aristotelian science (which is a good thing). Without it we would still believe in the five elements.

Christian theology spent much of the middle ages trying to assimilate the gospels with Plato and Aristotle, the only thing they have in common is their profound conservatism.

I think credit is due to Thales of Miletus who first tried to explain natural phenomena without recourse to supernatural beings.

Maybe if Thales of Miletus supplied the west with their worldview.

He did. He was the founding member of the Milesian school of philosophy which, as I have already stated, held that there are natural, scientific, explanations for natural phenomena. This attitude spread to Croton and Elea (a Milesian colony) in southern Italy, where Pythagoras and Parmenides respectively founded schools of their own, the one holding that maths is the key to understanding reality the other logic. Science, maths and logic are still how we try to make sense of the world and it all happened between six and four hundred years before there was a christ to have theology about.

[chaz wyman]

What a crock of shit! Tell that the Brian Cox, Einstein, Giordano Bruno, Galileo and Aristotle.
What a twat!
Is that the sort of bollocks they tell you in Theology classes?

I see I've threatened your sacred cow. Galileo himself argued against Aristotle for heliocentricity using the Bible.


Bollocks! Galileo argued Against the bible and the church for the heliocentric hypothesis, against the Catholic church who asserted the geocentric hypothesis. That is why Galileo spend his life in house arrest.

Christian theology helped to overturn Aristotelian science (which is a good thing). Without it we would still believe in the five elements.

Christian theology adopted Aristotle for 500 years and resisted every attempt to change is. Bruno paid with his life. The church and their theology acted like a ball and chain on all science until it's power was smashed by reason.

[edited by iMod]

[chaz wyman]

No, no, no - especially if you believe in God. If you don't believe in God, then Theology does not matter at all. Theology is a means by which people are removed from the everysay workings of reason and living an authentic life.
I do not have a belief of any kind; especially not "I believe there is no God". My life consists on knowing to the best of my ability. Things that are speculative do not attract any belief at all. Belief has no uses to me.

Know thyself. The only thing you have is belief.

Nope. I have knowledge. Belief is for wimps. Knowledge can grow and change with new evidence. Belief is for the feeble minded.

You see it does not matter to anyone that you believe Galileo argued the heliocentric hypothesis from the Bible, as we all KNOW he used observational evidence, and reason.